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Collapse OS

Collapse OS

kaycebasques

Comments (199)

  • perrygeo
    The problem with claims of imminent societal collapse is they treat "collapse" like an event, with the world neatly divided into before and after. Historically, societal collapse is much more fuzzy. No neat single cause. No single moment when things flipped. You can only truly know the collapse has happened well in retrospect.In terms of computing, this means that any strategy looking at a before/after collapse framing is missing the entire interesting middle part - how do we transition from this high-tech to low-tech world over the course of decades. I seriously doubt it can happen by anticipating what computing we might need and just leapfrogging there.
  • boricj
    In the past couple of years I've worked on a Ghidra extension that can export any subset of a program as a relocatable object file. I built that because I tried to reverse-engineer/decompile a video game and had unconventional opinions on how to proceed about it.I didn't design it for a post-collapse scenario, but one can salvage program parts from binary artifacts and create new programs with it, just like how a mechanic in a Mad Max world can scavenge car parts from a scrapyard and create new contraptions. It deconstructs the classical compile-assemble-link workflow in a manner that tends to cause migraines to sane persons.I've even managed to slightly bend the rules around ABI and sling binary code across similar-ish platforms (PlayStation to Linux MIPS and Linux x86 to Windows x86), but to really take this to its logical conclusion I'd need a way to glue together incompatible ABIs or even ISAs, in order to create program chimeras from just about any random set of binaries.
  • palmotea
    If "our global supply chain [will] collapse before we reach 2030," why is having a some type of computer a priority?I feel these kinds of projects may be fun, but they're essentially just LARPing. Though this one seems to have a more reasonable concept than most (e.g. "My raspbery pi-based "cyberdeck" with offline wikipedia will help!" No, you need a fucking farming manual on paper.).
  • 2mlWQbCK
    I am not into this end-of-the-world collapse thing at all, but I like reading about the strong focus on simplicity and support for limited hardware. There is a lot of talk about keeping things simple in software, but very few act on it. I don't need the threat of a global disaster to be interested in running operating systems like that.Been doing some retro hobby (16-bit, real-mode, 80286) DOS development lately. It is refreshing to look at a system and be able to at least almost understand all the things going on. It might not be the simplest possible system, not the most elegant CPU design, but compared to the bloated monsters we use today it is very nice to work with. DOS is already stretching the limits of what I can keep in my head and reason about without getting completely lost in over-engineered (and leaky) abstraction layers.
  • jeffchien
    Now I want a scavengers' guide to identify machines that might have a compatible microprocessor within them, because I haven't seen a Commodore or Apple II in a long time. Arcades with older cabinets obviously have them, but if most post-apocalyptic media are prophetic, they'll probably be occupied by a gang of young ne'er-do-wells. I suppose, thanks to the College Board, Ti-83s (Z80) are still quite common in the US. Are there toys, medical equipment, or vending machines that still use these chips?I wonder if ESP32s and Arduinos might be more commonly found, though I could see the argument that places with those newfangled chips may be more likely to become radioactive craters in some scenarios.
  • vdupras
    This link might be coming up in the context of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43481590 which went a bit under the HN radar.EDIT: oh, and in case the website goes over quota, try https://new.collapseos.org/ . I haven't thrown the DNS switch yet, but I expect my meager Fastmail hosting will bust today.
  • alnwlsn
    I've been meaning to give this a try for a while - I have several of the "supported" systems and I've designed a couple of my own simple Z80 computers over the past few years. Being able to program AVRs from a scavenged e-waste Z80 system seems strangely compelling to me. There's a LOT of AVRs in e-waste.But, if you absolutely needed to depend on it, I think that other technology might be better for the kinds of things we normally use microcontrollers for. If I need to control electronics where something that does this for a minute, then waits for that so it can do something else until this other thing, it's hard to imagine that a would-be apocalypse-ee would want to use a microcontroller rather than a more easily improvised mechanical cam timer [0]0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cam_timer
  • sb057
    Appropriately enough, the website is no longer accessible due to rate limiting, and the Internet Archive is down due to a power outage.https://x.com/internetarchive/status/1905030204357214335
  • tamimio
    > Bandwidth Restricted>The page you have tried to access is not available because the owner of the file you are trying to access has exceeded our short term bandwidth limits. Please try again shortly.It seems it collapsed!
  • barbequeer
    this line got me:> under what conditions do you believe the civilization you're living under will collapse? [...] Oh, you just haven't made that list yet? [...] Or you could take the question from the other side and list the conditions that are necessary for your civilization to continue to exist. That's an interesting list too.I've always dismissed collapse talk as "batshit crazy" as the author says. but he raises good points here. maybe I'm not batshit crazy enough.
  • aeblyve
    Targeting smartphones seems like a highly realistic way to make something like this work. The average westerner has like three of them lying around in desk drawers and they already have a number of useful peripherals attached. It is much less obvious, especially to the layman, how to turn the microcontroller in the coffee machine into something like a useful gate control device.
  • system7rocks
    Wow. I love this.Yes, it's kind of a LARP situation, but imagine a future scenario where some hacker (who also is physically resilient and well-protected in the face of apocalypse) has to figure out how to boot or get some system operating that might control solar panels. Not knowing the architecture - can you boot it up? Can you analyze existing binaries, ports, and other features and get it crudely operating? This sounds like a helluva of a video game.
  • apitman
    Well they're certainly walking the walk by serving this website over plaintext HTTP/1.1
  • 0hijinks
    I think it's really cool to create minimalist OSes. Something about perfboard projects and old, slow CPUs tickles my buttons. But I'm struggling to come up with a use case for this project in the End Times. In theory, this allows me to flash a ROM connected to an old through-hole, 8/16-bit CPU like a Z80, 8086, 6809 and 6502. I guess my issue is why and how would I do that during the end of the world?I can't think of a way to come into possession of MPUs like that without intentionally buying them ahead of time. And if I'm going to stockpile those, I might as well stockpile a more capable MCU or MPU instead and flash it with something else. 99.9% of what I'd want to do with minimalist computers in the apocalyptic wasteland would be just fine without an OS. Bare-bones MCUs work spectacularly for control systems, wireless cryptosystems, data logging, etc.Maybe I didn't look hard enough in the README [1], but I don't see how I'd bootstrap a system like this without already having a much more capable system on standby. Which comes back to the issue of... why?[1] https://git.sr.ht/~vdupras/collapseos
  • K0balt
    It seems like any serious endeavor on this front would focus on arm-m0 , risc-v, and Xtensa ESP cores. Those are the ones that can be recovered by the billions. You can recover tens of 1980s era level computers out of most any consumer device these days, even lightbulbs often have one.For $0.1 I can buy an MCU that can bit bang a keyboard , mouse, sound, VGA, with 2x the memory and 96 times the processing power as my old 6502 based computer. An esp32 is much, much more capable, like better than an old pentium machine and has wifi, usb, Bluetooth, etc…. And costs 0.7-2$ on a module. They can be found in home automation lightbulbs, among other things.Espressos has shipped over a billion esp32 chips since the platform launched.Sure, we should have a 6502 based solution, as it has a lot of software out there and a minimal transistor count, making it possible to hand-build. But for a long time we will be digging up esp32s and they are much more useful.
  • revskill
  • nullpoint420
    Where are we going to find engineers that know Forth post-collapse?
  • panarchy
    "By "scavenge-friendly electronic parts", I mean parts that can be assembled with low-tech tools. I mostly mean parts with a "through hole" mounting type (in opposition with "surface mount")."But I do tons of hobbyist electronics with surface mount!", some could say. Yeah, sure, but how do you wire it? You order a PCB from OSH Park? That's not very scavenge-friendly. " - https://new.collapseos.org/why.htmlNot that I totally disagree with this but see clay PCBs, another post-supply-chain-collapse electronics project https://media.ccc.de/v/38c3-clay-pcb#t=1689
  • ninalanyon
    Surely the easiest way to get a useful OS running on 8 bit CPUs would be to start with an existing one like CP/M that already has an ecosystem of applications and hardware designs including networking.Perhaps I should drag my Osborne out of the cellar and see if the floppies still work.
  • foenix
    Very cool! I asked about something similar in 2010 on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1396876Funny to see how the comments haven't shifted (and have!) in the past 15 years.
  • Felger
    Will it run on my Pip-Boy 3000 ?
  • glonq
    I find this to be less unhinged than say TempleOS, but it still seems unnecessary to focus on outdated languages and ancient CPU's.If/when civilization collapses, we will have zero problem scavenging for x86 CPUs.
  • gizajob
    I always knew FORTH would be the chosen one when all else fails.
  • anthk
    Also, I forgot. The CollapseOS author and kragen might love it:https://magic-1.org
  • dang
    Related. Others?Running CollapseOS on an Esp8266 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38645124 - Dec 2023 (1 comment)DuskOS: Successor to CollapseOS - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36688676 - July 2023 (4 comments)Collapse OS – Why? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35672677 - April 2023 (1 comment)Collapse OS: Winter is coming - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33207852 - Oct 2022 (2 comments)Collapse OS - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31340518 - May 2022 (8 comments)Collapse OS Status: Completed - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26922146 - April 2021 (2 comments)Collapse OS – bootstrap post-collapse technology - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25910108 - Jan 2021 (116 comments)Collapse OS Web Emulators - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24138496 - Aug 2020 (1 comment)Collapse OS, an OS for When the Unthinkable Happens - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23535720 - June 2020 (2 comments)Collapse OS - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23453575 - June 2020 (15 comments)Collapse OS – Why Forth? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23450287 - June 2020 (166 comments)Collapse OS – Why? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22901002 - April 2020 (3 comments)'Collapse OS' Is an Open Source Operating System for the Post-Apocalypse - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21815588 - Dec 2019 (3 comments)Collapse OS - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21182628 - Oct 2019 (303 comments)
  • generalizations
    This misses the point entirely. If you want access to digital tools after a collapse, then you design a (resilient, hard to break, easy to repair) transformer that can convert ANY kind of electricity into e.g. 12v DC. Pair it with a paper manual that describes a few ways to generate power from raw materials (diy batteries, ways to use copper wire if you can get some, etc).Then keep some laptops in a waterproof box.
  • mystified5016
    Breaking: hn commenters aghast and appalled that they aren't the target audience of a project.
  • phendrenad2
    Does it run on an IBM 5100?
  • curtisszmania
    [dead]
  • jaybro867
    [dead]
  • heavymetalpoizn
    [dead]
  • pyuser583
    [flagged]