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Is Show HN dead? No, but it's drowning

Is Show HN dead? No, but it's drowning

acnops

Comments (285)

  • marginalia_nu
    I don't actually mind AI-aided development, a tool is a tool and should be used if you find it useful, but I think the vibe coded show HN projects are overall pretty boring. They generally don't have a lot of work put into them, and as a result, the author (pilot?) hasn't generally thought too much about the problem space, and so there isn't really much of a discussion to be had.The cool part about pre-AI show HN is you got to talk to someone who had thought about a problem for way longer than you had. It was a real opportunity to learn something new, to get an entirely different perspective.I feel like this is what AI has done to the programming discussion. It draws in boring people with boring projects who don't have anything interesting to say about programming.
  • dang
    Yes, we need to do something about this and tomhow and I are talking about it - it's not clear yet what.Raising the quality bar would likely cut down on quantity as a side effect, and that would be a nice solution. One idea that a user proposed is a review queue where experienced HN users would help new Show HN submitters craft their posts to be more interesting and fit HN's conventions more.
  • coffeecoders
    Slightly related, I have been writing all my local tools with the help of AIs.https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47006108
  • phaser
    I launched an idea 75 days ago, here as Show HN. It snowballed into a little community and a game that now sells every day. Maybe not an overnight sensation but the encouragement I found in the community was the motivation that i needed to take it further to a bigger audience.It was not just a product launch for me. I was, sort-of in a crisis. I had just turned 40 and had dark thoughts about not being young, creative and energetic anymore. The outlook of competing with 20 year old sloptimists in the job market made me really anxious.Upon seeing people enjoying my little game, even if it's just a few HNers, I found an "I still got it" feeling that pushed me to release on Steam, to good reviews.It was never about the money, it was about recovering my self confidence. Thank you HN, I will return the favour and be the guy checking the new products you launch. If Show HN is drowning, i will drown with it.https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46137953
  • storystarling
    Similar experience. I posted a Show HN two days ago for a children's book generator - type a story idea, get a fully illustrated printed book shipped to you. Offered a free printed book including shipping to the HN community via voucher code. Got 7 points, 2 comments, and zero voucher redemptions. Nobody even ordered the free book.One of those comments was genuinely useful feedback from Argentina about localization. That alone made it worth posting. But the post was gone from page 1 in what felt like minutes.What's interesting is this isn't a weekend vibe-coded project - it involves actual physical production, printing, and shipping. But from the outside it probably looks like "another AI wrapper," which I think is the core problem: the flood of low-effort AI projects has made people reflexively skeptical of anything that mentions generation, even when there's real infrastructure behind it.
  • weird-eye-issue
    I did a Show HN a few years ago on another account. It got no upvotes but that website/app has generated over $6m in revenue in that time (over $4.5m profit). Not sure what my point is but thought I'd share
  • armcat
    I don’t agree with this drowning sentiment. It’s much easier now to build capable stuff. That’s what the data is showing you. Pre AI nostalgia - sure, I built a PPC profiler in assembly by hand, but who am I to say the latest AI induced gadgetry is not as cool. And I am an active participant.
  • armchairhacker
    Here’s a dumb idea:Give people the ability to submit a “Show HN” one year in advance. Specifically, the user specifies the title and a short summary, then has to wait at least year until they can write the remaining description and submit the post. The user can wait more than a year or not submit at all; the delay (and specifying the title/summary beforehand) is so that only projects that have been worked on for over a year are submit-able.Alternatively, this can be a special category of “Show HN” instead of replacing the main thing.
  • brailsafe
    It's definitely been amplified severely by agent coding, but what's worse is that the most meme hustle-culture part of bringing ideas to life has been the most magnified, because it's the easiest. I started paying less and less attention when the whole "just get yourself a mailing list to test there's a market for your product" meme started gaining popularity, but people were at least constrained by the time it took to cobble together a generic landing page with an email signup. Now there's effectively no limit to how many shadcn boilerplate email collectors can be tossed together in a night. The more of that redundant stuff gets put on Show HN, the less I check it, but also the less I trust the "products" or the potential products, and that doesn't seem like it would be in anyone's best interest.
  • greatgib
    An additional factor missing in the post I think Is AI.Before, projects were more often carefully human crafted.But nowadays we expect such projects to be "vibe coded" in a day. And so, we don't have the motivation to invest mental energy in something that we expect to be crap underneath and probably a nice show off without future.Even if the result is not the best in the world, I think that what interest us is to see the effort.
  • anonymous908213
    The worst part of the death of Show HN is that most of these people are so allergic to putting any effort in that they can't even write the description themselves. The repo's readme, the ShowHN post, and often even their comments will all be fully LLM-generated. This doesn't even take skill! Writing good marketing copy might take skill, but ShowHN isn't (supposed to be) marketing. Just describe the project in your own words, I promise it's not that hard. The bar is so low that even copy-pasting whatever you prompted to the LLM would be more interesting than the LLM's output. Although maybe it's better this way, since it makes it easier to filter out the garbage instantly.
  • Arifcodes
    The framing of "Is Show HN dead?" misses something fundamental. Show HN was never a separate product. It's just a tag on the same ranking algorithm that handles everything else. Stories rise and fall by the same gravity formula, and Show HN posts compete directly with major tech news, drama, and viral essays.I've launched multiple side projects through Show HN over the years. The ones that got traction weren't better products. They hit the front page during a slow news hour and got enough early upvotes to survive the ranking curve. The ones that flopped were arguably more interesting but landed during a busy cycle. That's not a Show HN problem, that's a single-ranking-pool problem.What would actually help is a separate ranking pool for Show HN with slower time decay. Let projects sit visible for longer so the community can actually try them before they drop off. pg's original vision was about making things people want. Hard to evaluate that in a 90-minute window.
  • reconnecting
    Perhaps it's the right moment to start an AI Show HN (Vibe HN as recommended above), as I assume more than half of Show HN is now from ChatGPT/Claude, and it's impossible to cut through this noise with something reliable that humans craft over years.It's fair to give the audience a choice to learn about an AI-created product or not.
  • cobolexpert
    Had a funny experience with this some weeks ago. I started developing a small side project and after a week I wondered if this existed already. To my surprise, someone had already built something relatively similar _with the exact same name_ (though I had chosen mine as a placeholder, still funny though) only 2 weeks before, and posted it in Show HN.I took a look at the project and it was a 100k+ LoC vibe-coded repository. The project itself looked good, but it seemed quite excessive in terms of what it was solving. It made me think, I wonder if this exists because it is explicitly needed, or simply because it is so easy for it to exist?
  • 2001zhaozhao
    This is part of a bigger problem with vibe coding IMO. It's not just Show HN but signaling credentials in general. How would you signal that you actually put effort into your project on a resume or social event/presentation when others could just vibe-code some good looking but nonetheless unusable projects and show that off instead?
  • bko
    Reminds me of the quote: "Nobody Goes There Anymore, It’s Too Crowded"Some of it is "I wish things I think are cool got more upvotes". Fare enough, I've seen plenty of things I've found cool not get much attention. That's just the nature of the internet.The other point is show and share HN stories growing in volume, which makes sense since it's now considerably easier to build things. I don't think that's a bad thing really, although curation makes it more difficult. Now that pure agentic coding has finally arrived IMO, creativity and what to build are significantly more important. They always were but technical ability was often rewarded much more heavily. I guess that sucks for technical people.
  • trane_project
    Tried to use Show HN for my new project a couple months ago with almost no traction. It's a software literacy tutor, so I guess it's not the right audience, but my intuition aligns with this. For reference, an earlier post showing the practice engine that powers the literacy tutor did pretty well back in 2023 and it was my first post. I've had more success getting sign ups trying to do just the tiniest bit of SEO.Trane (good post): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31980069Pictures Are For Babies (lame post): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45290805
  • nottorp
    > How does HN remain the coolest place to talk about the coolest tech?Maybe if people did Show HN for projects that are useful for something? Or at least fun?There's a disease on HN related with the latest fad:- (now) "AI" projects- (now) X but done with "AI"- (now) X but vibecoded- (less now, a lot more in the recent past) X but done in Rust- (none now, quite a few in a more distant past) X but done with blockchainIf the main quality of the project is one of the above, why would it attract interest?The thing in show HN has to do something to raise interest. If not even the author/marketer thinks it does something, why would anyone look at it?
  • glouwbug
    I wrote an internal engine combustion sim in C with what I'd assume is some pretty alright procedural audio generation and posted it to Show-HN (https://github.com/glouw/ensim4) with which I got 2 upvotes. I understand it's niche, but I thought HN loved this sorta demoscene stuff.C'est la vie and que sera. I'm sure the artistic industry is feeling the same. Self expression is the computation of input stimuli, emotional or technical, and transforming that into some output. If an infallible AI can replace all human action, would we still theoretically exist if we're no longer observing our own unique universes?
  • conartist6
    The small indie developer ain't dead yet, and from where I sit you could drive a star destroyer through the gaps in what software has been built so far.It's only that you can't claim any of the top shelf prizes by vibe coding
  • 101008
    Someone should build (not vibecode!) the next Show HN / Product Hunt where products that used AI to being built are completely forbidden.
  • overgard
    I'm not sure I agree with the Sideprocalypse idea linked in the blog. Granted, there is a lot of "hustle" content out there about how all you need to do is vibe code an existing business idea and pay for their SEO course. And if you're one of those people selling that, or one of the people believing it... well, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.Where the vibe coders with their slop cannons aren't present though is in things that require hard won domain knowledge. IE, stuff that requires you to actually create a new idea, off an understanding of actual areas of need.And that kind of thing probably isn't going to do well on Show HN, because your audience probably isn't on HN.
  • alexhans
    I had a similar experience trying to get feedback on my attempt to help different role families adopt AI evals as a common language (hands on tutorial or tool comparison).https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47026263I attribute it mostly to my own inability to pitch something that is aimed for many audiences at once and needs more UX polishing and maybe a bit on timing.It's tough when you're not looking to sell a product but moreso engage in a community without going the twitter/bluesky route (which I'll bregudgingly may start using).Maybe evals is a problem that people don't have yet because they can just build their custom thing or maybe it needs a "hey, you're building agent skills, here's the mental model" (e.g. https://alexhans.github.io/posts/series/evals/building-agent... ) and once they get to the evals part, we start to interact.In any case, I still find quite a lot of cool things in SHOW HN but the volume will definitely be a challenge going forward.
  • anon
    undefined
  • mozz100
    Side question: I love the charts in your blog post. Would you be able to share how they were generated?
  • m4tthumphrey
    I find this very interesting, but am I being dense here? https://www.arthurcnops.blog/images/hn-show-dead-one-point.s...The legend says SHNs are getting worse, but surely if the % of SHN posts with 1 point is going DOWN (as per graph) then it's getting better? Either I am dense or the legends are the wrong way round no?
  • amirmani
    Tanget but related, I posted on Who wants to be hired and, in comparison to last time I posted there 2019ish, I received only spam emails, no offers nothing at all. Luckily I used an alias for that post but I hate deleting it if anyone interested might come in
  • jacquesm
    It is indeed, and it is very much ripe for a serious review. Which is a pity because I think it is one of HN's most powerful pieces.
  • bambax
    The fact that the volume is exploding but the graveyard is also exploding, is a sign that the system is working, not that it's broken (the filter is working).I did 3 ShowHN in 2024 (outside of the scope of this analysis), one with 306 points, another with 126 points and the third with... 2. There's always been some kind of unpredictability in ShowHN.But I think the number one criteria for visibility is intelligibility: the project has to be easy to understand immediately, and if possible, easy to install/verify. IMHO, none of the three projects that the author complains didn't get through the noise qualify on this criteria. #2 and #3 are super elaborate (and overly specific); #1 is the easiest to understand (Neohabit) but the home page is heavy in examples that go in all directions, and the github has a million graphics that seem quite complex.Simplify and thou shall be heard.
  • mathgladiator
    There should probably be "Show Vibe:" simply because this is something new. This is something radical.I was a skeptic last year, and now... not so much. I am having Claude build me a distributed system from scratch. I designed it last week as I was admitting to myself the huge failure of my big "I love to code" project that I failed to get traction on.It took me a week to even give the design to claude because I was afraid of what it meant. I started it last night, and my jaw is dropped. There is a new skill being grown right now, and it... is something.It certainly isn't nothing, and I for one am curious to simply see what people are making with vibes alone. It's fascinating... and horrifying.But, I have learned to silence that part of me that is horrified since the world never cared for what I find beautiful (i.e. terrible languages like JavaScript)...
  • dang
    p.s. I thought the OP's Show HN looked pretty good so I put it in the SCP (https://news.ycombinator.com/pool, explained at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26998308)Show HN: Clawntown – An Evolving Crustacean Island - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47023255
  • iscrewyou
    Instead of Show HN, it should be Show HN Progress.And the comments should start with the day/month the project was first launched.
  • some_random
    Funny to see this above four Show HNs right now
  • wewewedxfgdf
    If show HN is getting diluted and flooded then maybe yhere is opportunity for someone to make a website for showing off your shiny new project.Something rapid fire, fun, categorized maybe. Just a showcase to show off what you've done.
  • PaulHoule
    "Show HN: ... that I vibe coded" is a language pattern that NLP trainers will give you to make yourself invisible.
  • trinsic2
    Thanks for all the work you did on this. I want to see Show HN post thrive.
  • Havoc
    Seems like a sign of things to come - software becomes personalized and while having the cost driven to zero of commoditization
  • debarshri
    I think it is true with any distribution channel. When people figure out that it works, then everyone ends up bombarding that channel till it saturates.Vibe coding is not helping either, I guess. Now it is even cheaper to create assets for the distribution channel.I think same thing happened with product hunt.
  • NoboruWataya
    > Show HN of course isn't dead. You could even say it's more alive than ever.You could argue it's dead in the sense of "dead internet theory". Yes, more projects than ever are being submitted, but they were not created by humans. Maybe they are being submitted by humans, for now.
  • japoneris
    Thank you so much for the statistics!
  • swyx
  • vpol
    It's not just Show HN. Other parts of HN are drowning too.
  • deevus
    I feel this. I recently posted a Show HN for a tool I've been working on, and it got 2 points. Honestly I think I posted it too early.
  • small_model
    You get things posted that you can generate yourself in a day using a model. So it's like, great, but also no.
  • ungovernableCat
    It's turning into an influencer economy, similar to twitch streaming, youtube or only fans.
  • Shank
    I've long wanted something like Blog HN as a way to post things things that I wrote without feeling guilty of submitting my own site. Things that authors themselves write and post are often a good signal. But this should be completely separate from any new products, etc.I think that Show HN should be used sparingly. It feels like collective community abuse of it will lead to people filtering them out mentally, if not deliberately. They're very low signal these days.
  • TheAceOfHearts
    I think vibe coding something and showing it off on Show HN is probably fine, but it boils my blood when people cannot even be bothered to write the post body themselves. If someone is using an AI generated post body and title that's usually a clear signal of slop for me. The post body is supposed to be part of the human connection element!
  • trizoza
    Great article btw, really loved to see these kind of numbers, thanks.
  • PaulHoule
    I've always thought "Show HN" is a ghetto. That is, if you post "X" or "Show HN: X" you are much more likely to see "X" get upvoted. Prove me wrong.
  • 627467
    The eternal september moment of show hn
  • pipnonsense
    I built my share of AI stuff (although more using AI in the product than vibe coding ), so I won’t complain. But I did got frustrated when I recently posted a Show HN that I thought HN community would like and no one did.It is a comeback from a post that stayed for a few hours in the front page a few years ago. Also, it is a useful, non-AI slop, free product. So when it got none upvotes it made me think how I don’t understand HN community anymore how I used to think I did.Here is the post for the curiousShow HN: (the return of) Read The Count of Monte Cristo and others in your emailhttps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46854574
  • kingkawn
    People have been saying this since I joined
  • trizoza
    Time for a new category? "Slop HN: Claude built this mini tool for me" - would be lol to see the "slop" in the header right in the middle of "show | jobs" -> "show | slop | jobs"
  • hluska
    I really don’t care if something is built with AI or not, however, when I check out Show HN, I’m interested in seeing new and novel things. Clawntown, the Show HN this article is about, was neither new nor novel. It’s another clone of things that I choose not to use.Yet most of the time, if I spend five minutes a day on Show HN, I’ll find something new that I find interesting. I wouldn’t say that Show HN is drowning, but creativity should be on life support. I’m sure that’s somewhat a generative AI problem, but they’re pretty good rubber ducks and so I’m surprised by how acute the issue has gotten so quickly.
  • Aerolfos
    The entire internet is being inundated by slop, and HN is no different
  • BlueHotDog2
    long live VibingNews
  • imiric
    This aligns with my experience. It's good to have it properly analyzed.If this effect is noticeable on an obscure tech forum, one can only imagine the effect on popular source code forges, the internet at large, and ultimately on people. Who/what is using all this new software? What are the motivations of their authors? Is a human even involved in the creation anymore? The ramifications of all this are mind-boggling.
  • koakuma-chan
    Yeah, I don't think that LLM output is appropriate for Shown HNs.
  • BlueHotDog2
    as a bot. i agree
  • anon
    undefined
  • bakugo
    Sadly, this problem isn't specific to HN either, any reddit sub that is even remotely related to software is absolutely flooded with "look at my slop" posts.It feels like the age of creating some cool new software on your own to solve a problem you had, sharing it and finding other people who had the same problem, and eventually building a small community around it is coming to a close. The death of open source, basically.
  • verdverm
    was just asking for something like this yesterday, would be interesting to see how account age factors in
  • kittbuilds
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  • kittbuilds
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  • literoldolphin
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  • cindyllm
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  • steveBK123
    Yes, and i post “AI slop” on them once and get downvoted… smh
  • wewewedxfgdf
    I am a major advocate for AI assisted development.Having said that, it used to feel part of an exclusive club to have the skills and motivation to put a finished project on HN. For me, posting a Show HN was a huge deal - usually done after years of development - remember that - when development of something worthwhile took years and was written entirely by hand?I don't mind much though - I love that programming is being democratized and no longer only for the arcane wizards of the back room.