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Comments (642)

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  daxfohl
  We'll see how much the AI aspect is true by whether they're thinning out teams equally, or just axing whole initiatives. My impression of Block was that it was mostly a one-trick pony (okay, two if you include CashApp) with a bunch of side initiatives that never seemed to pan out, so I'm expecting it to be more of the latter, with this being more of an admission that they're now in "maintenance mode".Either way, I think this is how it's gonna be. Regardless of whether AI significantly increases productivity (40%? come on), layoffs will be preemptory. Executives will see the lack of productivity boost as being due to lack of pressure, and imagine engineers are just using the AI to make their own lives easier rather than to work more efficiently. You can't really double output velocity because your users will see it as too much churn, so the only choice is to lay off half the workforce and double the workload for those who stay. "Necessity is the mother of invention." They'll overlook the fact that the work AI tools provide only encompasses 10% of your job even if they're 100% efficient.
• agnishom
  > i had two options: cut gradually over months or years as this shift plays out, or be honest about where we are and act on it now.Sounds like a false dichotomy. The third option is that he could have kept them around. It would be financially feasible given that "our business is strong. gross profit continues to grow, we continue to serve more and more customers, and profitability is improving.".
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  senko
  This is one of the best (if not the best) layoff letters I've seen online (no affiliation, don't know anyone working there, purely outsider perspective).* Severance packages upfront because realistically that's what everyone worries about first.* Reasoning second. I appreciate the one clean cut vs prolonged bleeding.* Owning the decision and respecting the people that got you there. Opting for an awkward allhands vs breakup-via-text-message.* Giving people a chance to say goodbye.Not gonna go into strategic analysis of this, or Jack's leadership style in general.But realistically, you can't pen a better (or, well, less bad) layoff announcement.
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  taurath
  This reminds me of the meme of Margaret Thatcher: "And There is No Alternative" - a way to justify the policies she desired to implement and attempt to preempt any other view.We're supposed to believe Jack is a victim of circumstance. He hired all those people, and now he has no choice but to fire them - he wasn't clairvoyant to the future when he hired all those people, or else he'd known he would have had to fire them. But now since he is clairvoyant to the future, he knows he must fire them.We are all as childrens playthings right now.
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  t-writescode
  Nice severance; but in this job market, holy shit.Yeah, you get 5 months of severance and a bunch of devices and such; but, does this CEO really think these employees will find new work in that time? In this job market?If the profits are still up and growing, why on earth would you evict 40% of the company, to send them into this job market? Why not … try new industries, play around, try to become the next Mitsubishi or Samsung or General Electric. If you’ve got the manpower and talent, why not play with it and see if anything makes money. In-house startups with stable capital, all that.This seems … wrong.
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  paxys
  Square/Block stock peaked at $273 in Feb 2021 and is currently at $54. Taking away the Covid bubble the stock has been completely flat since 2018, almost 8 years, while the S&P 500 returned nearly 200% in that same period. So I'm not buying the whole "the company is doing great! The layoff is just because of AI."
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  borroka
  Anyone who has worked in the big tech industry knows that probably more than half of the workforce performs tasks that, in essence, are superfluous.But these things happened: 1) Musk has shown that Twitter can operate with 5% (approximately?) of the workforce he inherited; 2) laying off a lot of people was seen as a sign that the company was in trouble, but not now because; 3) artificial intelligence makes point 2) not a semi-desperate move, but a forward-thinking adjustment to current and future technology development.I've been out of work for almost a year now, after being laid off, and I think it's very unlikely that I'll ever return (not because of my choice but their choice) to work in the tech industry as a W2 employee. Oh well.
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  htrp
  >we're not making this decision because we're in trouble. our business is strong. gross profit continues to grow, we continue to serve more and more customers, and profitability is improving. but something has changed. we're already seeing that the intelligence tools we’re creating and using, paired with smaller and flatter teams, are enabling a new way of working which fundamentally changes what it means to build and run a company. and that's accelerating rapidly.This is one way of making an all-in bet on AI.>we're not going to just disappear people from slack and email and pretend they were never here. communication channels will stay open through thursday evening (pacific) so everyone can say goodbye properly, and share whatever you wish. i'll also be hosting a live video session to thank everyone at 3:35pm pacific. i know doing it this way might feel awkward. i'd rather it feel awkward and human than efficient and cold.Well that's interesting, wonder if we'll actually get a proper accounting of which departments take which cuts.
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  rappatic
  i'm gonna write this terrible news in all lowercase cause it's super aesthetic. maintain a bit of professionalism for the 4,000 people whose lives i'm throwing into turmoil? i don't think so, i have my shift key taped over so i don't accidentally show respect to anybody
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  softwaredoug
  Pre pandemic Block had ~4000 employeesThey grew to 11000Now they’re going to shrink to 6000The whiplash from ZIRP days to whatever AI cost restructuring happening today is massive
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  kace91
  >we're not making this decision because we're in trouble. our business is strong. gross profit continues to grow, we continue to serve more and more customers, and profitability is improving.In my country, this action would be literally illegal.Even in countries where it isn’t, it feels highly immoral. “I’m not in any kind of pressure to do this but I’m choosing to shed the people who created my wealth for greater personal gain”.
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  jscheel
  Jack Dorsey has a habit of explosively increasing headcount. Twitter was so overweight that 80% were eliminated when Musk took over. Block's headcount grew from 3,900 to 12,500 in three years during Covid. Block's stock price has also tumbled from ~$275 to ~$54 since 2022. I think that the severance package is incredibly generous, and the willingness to communicate with those affected is admirable. But I also think that Dorsey is spinning a story to cover up for ZIRP-era mismanagement. AI provides the justification, with the hope that dumping 2x the work on the survivors won't crush them because AI tools will help. The bet may pay off, I'm just skeptical of the justification.
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  rcakebread
  Couldn't even be bothered to type like an adult when he fired them.
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  jcmontx
  I don’t think we’ll ever return to the glory days (2007-2023). Software engineering in the next few years will become as cool as accounting or HR (as in not cool at all). Just a generic white collar profession like it was maybe in the 80s.
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  overfeed
  > i'd rather take a hard, clear action now and build from a position we believe in than manage a slow reduction of people toward the same outcome.I hope this gets drilled into the heads of everyone who sells their labor. The company is profitable, and Jack could have kept 4000 people employed with no difference in outcome, instead, he chose this.
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  abeppu
  > i had two options: cut gradually over months or years as this shift plays out, or be honest about where we are and act on it now.Why are companies seeing it purely in terms of "we can work with a smaller team so we must" and not "my existing team can do so much more"?
• harsha_photon
  Is this because of goose (developed by block), the ai agent framework stripe forked and created minions ??
• m_ke
  It's going to get really ugly, Jason Lemkin called this out as a possibility a few hours ago: https://youtu.be/mBE_9vGJBUM?si=WSyZXYgV48WfrNrv&t=2908We're about to see a lot of public SAAS companies do the same and rebrand as "AI" first
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  GeoAtreides
  I wrote this, currently at -2 points, a mere 24 hours ago, as a response to simonw unbounded and unwarranted optimism:>>We're three years into the ChatGPT revolution now and so far the main observable impact on the craft that I care about is that I can build more ambitious things.>I think you refuse to extrapolate the obvious consequences and have forgotten (if you ever knew) how it's like to be in trenches. You put on the horse blinders of 'easy to build' on the left and 'so much fun' on the right and happily trot on, while the wolves of white collar job automation are closing in for the middle class.>You believe that we'll all become cyborg centaurs, while the managers believe we'll all become redundant. You think people will care about the sideslop everyone will build, not seeing that 'everyone will build' means 'no one will care'. Worse, means no one will buy (knowledge| skill|creation).>Indeed we have not tipped over into the abyss, but we're teetering and the wind is picking up. It's not the end times, it's not AGI, it doesn't have to be AGI to wreck great damage on the economy, our craft and, ultimately, our way of life and our minds.>And the wind is picking up, faster and faster.[1]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47159008
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  flumpcakes
  Imagine receiving this message and the author couldn't even be bothered to capitalise letters properly. How insulting. It's like being fired by a five year old child.
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  itmitica
  Why make others misfortune a platform for ego expression? Why not doing things elegant, quiet, keep it in-house? Because misery of others drives stock prices up! It's a sacrifice he's willing to make.
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  Havoc
  Took a quick look at their financials...I reckon this move is related to bitcoin doing poorly. A LOT of their revenue is bitcoin related and I reckon they realized they're going to have an absolute stinker of a Q1 '26 result...
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  chilipepperhott
  What are the odds this is actually due to overhiring during the pandemic? From what I know, that was the principle reason for the Amazon layoffs. Would love to be corrected if I'm misremembering.
• manbash
  > i had two options: cut gradually over months or years as this shift plays out, or be honest about where we are and act on it now. i chose the latter.Making it seem like there's only going to be one mass layoff round. There will be another one, you can be certain.
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  MeetingsBrowser
  I don't understand anyone who says layoffs are due to improvements in AI tooling."Thanks to LLMs, each worker can do twice the work they could before. Naturally we are firing half the company because ... business is good and ... too much productivity is bad?"
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  just-the-wrk
  I think the AI angle is a fig leaf for perpetual mismanagement. Managers at Block privately complained there were a lot of people doing almost no work. Recently, teams have lost people one at a time, sometimes laid off the day after each other.If they can organize employees to make more money, they will. But they can't and admitted it.
• dasistrobert
  We are an ai headhunting startup and ready to support all affected from the lay-off. Our team at clera is working through the weekend to connect every affected employee we can with top founders who are hiring right now. Warm intros, no waiting.More information: getclera.com/blockIts 100% free
• ppeetteerr
  Wishing the best for all those affected and excited to see many of you start new companies and continue to innovate.
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  suralind
  Sucks for the people to lose their jobs, but probably the most honest message you’ll ever see.What I don’t understand is why. There’s a natural churn at each company. Of course it’s not 40%, but probably 4-5% per year, but I doubt the company freezes hiring and they are not pressured to do this.
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  swingboy
  If AI really was the cause, why would a company eliminate people who could use it to multiply output and widen the gap between them and their competitors?
• rgovostes
  My recent experience with Cash App made it apparent that something is really going awry at Block: My decade-old account was suspended, despite no suspicious activity and being in my full legal name and address and connected to the same checking account I've always used. I appealed, but of course they upheld their opaque decision, which is now permanent. I'm not surprised they're struggling if this is how they treat users who have plenty of alternative options.
• anon
  undefined
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  neya
  > today we're making one of the hardest decisions in the history of our company:> i had two options: cut gradually over months or years as this shift plays out, or be honest about where we are and act on it now. i chose the latter.> i’m sorry to put you through this.POV: Dude who has effortlessly fired people before deflects blame for over-hiring in the first place.I swear people should start blacklisting CEOs and refuse to work under them if they're part of the blacklist.This is just a piss poor excuse for bad management and short-sighted vision and no accountability.
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  skwirl
  We’re reaching “Don’t Look Up” levels of denial about the impact of AI on this site.
• freshtake
  Which functions? which projects? If you have 10,000 talented engineers and you're choosing to reduce headcount it's because you don't know how to attack the business and drive revenue in a significant way.
• kbos87
  All this is is evidence that Jack Dorsey had no idea what half the employees at Block were doing before he decided to do layoffs. May he know no peace, wherever he goes.
• yodsanklai
  Everybody is on the edge, with the fear of a big layoff wave happening.We see more and more people claiming they are so much more productive thanks to coding agents, big tech CEOs driving the use of AI like crazy, pundits anticipating rise of unemployment. Personally, I feel that productivity gains are overrated, but still, I'm pretty worried to lose my job in the near future. I'm saving aggressively.
• garbawarb
  Does anyone know what teams are affected?I wonder if this is the beginning of a new wave of layoffs across the industry like we had in 2022.
• jmacd
  Block really did not come down from it's COVID/ZIRP era high # of employees as much as many other companies, and it's COVID era headcount growth was extremely rapid by any standard.In some ways this isn't daring, future looking leadership... it's much more lazy leadership that took a while to adjust to market demands.
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  ivanech
  This feels similar to March 2020 when COVID was in Seattle. “It’s in the US but maybe it’s just a one-off.” We’ll see, I guess.
• mcast
  >repeated rounds of cuts are destructive to morale, to focus, and to the trust [...] i'd rather take a hard, clear action now [...] than manage a slow reduction of people toward the same outcomeI think this is pretty agreeable, spanning layoffs into a monthly/quarterly "Hunger Games" is very damaging to employee morale.
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  maerF0x0
  > first off, if you're one of the people affected, you'll receive your salary for 20 weeks + 1 week per year of tenure, equity vested through the end of may, 6 months of health care, your corporate devices, and $5,000 to put toward whatever you need to help you in this transition (if you’re outside the U.S. you’ll receive similar support but exact details are going to vary based on local requirements). i want you to know that before anything else. everyone will be notified today, whether you're being asked to leave, entering consultation, or asked to stay.Sounds like the perfect setup to start your own company!
• skeeter2020
  How messed up is the world that when a leader basically comes clean and says this is being done for efficiency reasons (and by extension the market's reward for bottom line impact) it starts to come across as "honest and brave"?
• tech_jabroni
  Block was incredibly bloated. This guy is correct: https://x.com/BamaBonds/status/2027142091596288314?s=20
• 650
  This is akin to the is-ought fallacy. Just because a company had layoffs and cited AI, doesn't mean other companies should follow suit or that it will happen. As others have noted in the comments, BTC dropped heavily which Block was invested in, and a lot of their bets went south. Block managers complained at times about certain people not working privately. They also acquired a few companies at peak valuations post COVID.
• dasistrobert
  Our team at getclera.com is working through the weekend to connect every affected employee with top founders who are hiring right now. Warm intros, no waiting.More information: getclera.com/block It's 100% free for Talents. If you refer a talent we place into a new job, you get 1000 USD.
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  tlhunter
  Jack couldn't be bothered to use capital letters in his last layoff email either.
• punee94
  There has to be a good word to describe people like Jack Dorsey.World class software tinkerer, but no business running a public company.
• interestpiqued
  Their revenue is literally down over FY25. But it takes less than an hour for VC influencers to come out and and say we all need to work nights and weekends before getting displaced. https://x.com/balajis/status/2027146933136150867?s=46
• nusl
  The wording is all nice, and at surface level it reads well. It still makes me feel super icky. Kill 4k jobs because people are more productive with AI. Fuck the people, push the profits. Make investors happy.No, fuck the investors. Fuck the entities causing these decisions to be more common. Extra-fuck the ever-more-obvious push for profit over literally anything else, including ethics, morals, and humanity. If you're an investor causing this shit to happen, fuck you.Somehow this makes me feel that this org is already dead, and that this is just gonna accelerate it.
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  siliconc0w
  you can tell he is a cracked out based tech ceo because he doesn't use capital letters
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  gombosg
  I still don't get it.If AI really improves efficiency and allows the company's employees to produce more, better products faster and thus increase the competitiveness of a company... then why does said company fire (half of!) its staff instead of, well, producing more, better products faster, thus increasing its competitiveness?Am I naive or is AI a lie when marked as a cause?Why is it that us employees are gaslighted with the FOMO of "if you don't adopt AI to produce more, then you'll be replaced by employees who do", and why do these executives don't feel "if you fire half of your employees for whatever reason, you'll be outcompeted by companies who... simply didn't?"
• testfoobar
  1. Is this a one off event due to Block's unique business environment?2. Will other tech firms consider such large layoffs in the near future?
• justonepost2
  The year is 2030, tech companies provide the exact same value proposition to the consumer that they did in 2024, except it is buggier, full of sparkle buttons you can’t get rid of, and isn’t a source of high-paying employment. The front page of HN still has 5 posts from Blog Guys titled “Programming is Fun Again”.The future rocks
• giancarlostoro
  Looking at Block's Twitter bio, I see half their companies seem worthwhile, the other half is crypto stuff, and they should either sell it off, or sunset it.
• stelliosk
  How do they work out that intelligence tools can fill the gap made by 4,000 out of 10,000 and how long did it take to do that calculation? Or are we entering a phase of layoffs under the guise of ?
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  christoff12
  "we're reducing our organization by nearly half, from over 10,000 people to just under 6,000. that means over 4,000 of you are being asked to leave or entering into consultation."holy moly
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  akshshha
  I’ll take jobs moving to India for 1000, Alex.
• anon
  undefined
• tqi
  Bets on how long it takes to get back to 10k employees?Imo companies cannot fucking help themselves but continue to grow. Meta is already back above 2021 headcount, after cutting 20k employees in 2022. Managers want to Senior Managers want to be Directors want to be VPs. The best way to do that is to grow "scope" aka people under you. And since Jack wants to be Elon and Elon wants to be God, they will happily buy that story...
• numbers
  A few thoughts about Block as I've worked there before:- the company thrives on long term projects that seem to fizzle out as engineers get frustrated and leave- there are way too many MBAs and finance people now compared to the early years where building was prioritized.- jack is only doing part time at Block, early days he was around to chat and work with varying levels of hands on- they've overhired and over-committed to losing projects, worst of all they've de-prioritized projects that were pretty innovative because traction wasn't there quick enough for them to justify them, e.g. terminal, POS specifically for restaurants, localization for EU- they operate on docs and in the time of AI, the workforce is inundated with slop- also, I hate that jack can't be bothered to capitalize anything like it's cool. come on man, you're firing 4000 people, not tweeting memes
• trashface
  Nearly half of their employees. And yet economists tell us, AI isn't going to affect jobs.
• crustyrusty
  "l00k at all my AI!"Or how about your revenue lines are in retail and peer-to-peer finances, primarily for small-to-medium sized businesses and low-to-mid income individuals, primarily in the US market, all of which are struggling from tariffs and economic slowdown in their brackets.Nah...definitely the AI.
• anon
  undefined
• eviks
  Vibe management at its finest
• duncangh
  Chopping block
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  hokumguru
  I'm still not sure I quite agree with this AI replacement premise.Assuming the premise of profitability and a sound business then this sounds like a failure of product if anything. It just doesn't follow for me that when you see more productive teams the immediate answer is that you need less people. Especially for silicon valley types this seems antithetical to scaling.Thinking of it in two ways- Yes you could (in theory but I still argue not 100%) cut workforce and have a smaller # of people do the work that everyone else was doingOr- You could keep your people, who are ostensibly more productive with AI, and get even more work doneWhy would you ever choose the first?
• gip
  AI is a transformative technology that will reshape how companies are run. More layoffs may be coming unfortunately. But on the other end, more companies and more products will be created. More competition overall, including for Block.The overarching risk, imo, is America turning against tech and its leaders / billionaires. I think this is slowly happening. And why not, if the People decide that tech is not bringing good things to our modern society anymore, that should be respected.
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  prsutherland
  Seems like if AI is such an accelerator, leveraging 4,000 more people using AI will generate that much more shareholder value.Any layoff that blames AI and doesn't address the fact that the company is saying it would prefer to make less, they are lying.Rational actors should be pushing to grow when others are fearful. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox
• getnormality
  I wonder what folks on 2009 Hacker News would have said if a company announced layoffs.Would the top comments have been questioning it, telling the CEO what he should have done instead, worrying about how hard it would be for those people in today's economy?
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  dfadsadsf
  Right now is exactly the time when we need to pause issuing new or transferring existing H1B/L1/other work visas for least a year until we know full impact of AI on economy and employment.
• cm2012
  He cant write in proper case to lay off $4k people?
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  noelsusman
  Why is this statement in all lowercase? Is this a tech bro thing I'm unaware of?
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  cyanydeez
  Stock goes up in expectation of ... CEOs doing share buybacks to increase their bonus checks.
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  krzaG
  It is hard to tell what this company does, but it seems to be involved in bitcoin. Coincidentally we have had a huge drop in bitcoin in the last months.I don't buy anything this weirdo says.
• dzonga
  this is brutal. :(my mentor was on the chopping block too.block btw now makes most of its money on bitcoin transactions not software
• enmyj
  Block owns Tidal? who knew
• tonymet
  If only David Graeber were alive to see that Boards have finally started to appreciate his 2018 Book, Bullshit Jobs.
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  JumpCrisscross
  What does “entering into consultation” mean?
• kledru
  well, I'd like to join smaller flatter teams...
• pmdr
  > but something has changed. we're already seeing that the intelligence tools we’re creating and usingFor some reason he deliberately avoids using the word 'artificial' here.
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  raverbashing
  So, what does Block actually do?
• Bluescreenbuddy
  Translation: we’re hemorrhaging money and need to cut costs. AI is just a smokescreen
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  varjag
  i had two options: cut gradually over months or years as this shift plays out, or be honest about where we are and act on it now. i chose the latter. repeated rounds of cuts are destructive to morale, to focus, and to the trust that customers and shareholders place in our ability to lead.Come on now, it's not going to be the only round.
• redwood
  I like how it's posted to a twitter URL.Lack of caps really grinds on you by the end.Anyway not unexpected.
• Trasmatta
  What is it with tech execs and not using capital letters? It's bizarre. Especially in a letter about layoffs.
• mempko
  If it's true that AI is creating productivity gains (and I think it is), then a company has two options. If every employee is X more productive, then you can either cut people and increase profitability, but sacrifice growth. Or you can be creative and see this as an opportunity to develop new features, new lines of business and new products. The choice depends on the creativity of the business leaders. Judging from Jack's post here, he chose option one. Which suggests to me he is deeply an un-creative business leader taking the easy path.
• jiveturkey
  why doesn't HN rewrite this to the canonical x.com hostname?
• retinaros
  he is worse than musk ever been. hiding behind ai
• jlarocco
  Imagine being laid off by somebody who doesn't understand capital letters.
• jwilber
  Some choice Jack Dorsey quotes:From New Yorker profile: “His goal… is… by making information freer, he hopes to make the world fairer, kinder, and nicer.”Where he also writes, “I definitely feel the most fundamental issue is economic equality.”But hey, the stock is up 25%!
• jcgrillo
  Imagine not being laid off in this situation.. I'd demand to be.EDIT: I guess if it comes with 300% raise I'd pause for a bit to think about it, but otherwise absolutely not.
• anon
  undefined
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  triceratops
  The headline numbers:They're cutting 40% (edit: the post actually says "nearly half") of the workforce (4k out of 10k). That's huge.The severance is 20 weeks of pay + 1 week per year of tenure, stock vesting through May, 6 months of healthcare, their corporate devices, and $5k cash.
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  citbl
  [flagged]
• objektif
  Will Randian tech bros start calling for socialism soon? Inshallah.
• irenetusuq
  [dead]
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  daxfohl
  Vibe CEOing.
• cboyardee
  [dead]
• zombiwoof
  [dead]
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  throwback_dev
  [flagged]
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  rvz
  > we're not making this decision because we're in trouble. our business is strong. gross profit continues to grow, we continue to serve more and more customers, and profitability is improving. but something has changed. we're already seeing that the intelligence tools we’re creating and using, paired with smaller and flatter teams, are enabling a new way of working which fundamentally changes what it means to build and run a company. and that's accelerating rapidly.Once again, this is "AGI" in it's most direct and absolute version with zero fluff.I unfortunately predicted more layoffs will occur back in 2025 [0] and I see only but acceleration on this.[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46307549
• anon
  undefined