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  jedberg
  Oh, this is really interesting to me. This is what I worked on at Amazon Alexa (and have patents on).An interesting fact I learned at the time: The median delay between human speakers during a conversation is 0ms (zero). In other words, in many cases, the listener starts speaking before the speaker is done. You've probably experienced this, and you talk about how you "finish each other's sentences".It's because your brain is predicting what they will say while they speak, and processing an answer at the same time. It's also why when they say what you didn't expect, you say, "what?" and then answer half a second later, when your brain corrects.Fact 2: Humans expect a delay on their voice assistants, for two reasons. One reason is because they know it's a computer that has to think. And secondly, cell phones. Cell phones have a built in delay that breaks human to human speech, and your brain thinks of a voice assistant like a cell phone.Fact 3: Almost no response from Alexa is under 500ms. Even the ones that are served locally, like "what time is it".Semantic end-of-turn is the key here. It's something we were working on years ago, but didn't have the compute power to do it. So at least back then, end-of-turn was just 300ms of silence.This is pretty awesome. It's been a few years since I worked on Alexa (and everything I wrote has been talked about publicly). But I do wonder if they've made progress on semantic detection of end-of-turn.Edit: Oh yeah, you are totally right about geography too. That was a huge unlock for Alexa. Getting the processing closer to the user.
• eru
  > [...] and no precomputed responses.You could probably improve your metrics even more with those in the mix again?
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  brody_hamer
  > Voice is a turn-taking problemIt really feels to me like there’s some low hanging fruit with voice that no one is capitalizing on: filler words and pacing. When the llm notices a silence, it fills it with a contextually aware filler word while the real response generates. Just an “mhmm” or a “right, right”. It’d go so far to make the back and forth feel more like a conversation, and if the speaker wasn’t done speaking; there’s no talking over the user garbage. (Say the filler word, then continue listening.)
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  armcat
  This is an outstanding write up, thank you! Regarding LLM latency, OpenAI introduced web sockets in their Responses client recently so it should be a bit faster. An alternative is to have a super small LLM running locally on your device. I built my own pipeline fully local and it was sub second RTT, with no streaming nor optimisations https://github.com/acatovic/ova
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  modeless
  IMO STT -> LLM -> TTS is a dead end. The future is end-to-end. I played with this two years ago and even made a demo you can install locally on a gaming GPU: https://github.com/jdarpinian/chirpy, but concluded that making something worth using for real tasks would require training of end-to-end models. A really interesting problem I would love to tackle, but out of my budget for a side project.
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  lukax
  Or you could use Soniox Real-time (supports 60 languages) which natively supports endpoint detection - the model is trained to figure out when a user's turn ended. This always works better than VAD.https://soniox.com/docs/stt/rt/endpoint-detectionSoniox also wins the independent benchmarks done by Daily, the company behind Pipecat.https://www.daily.co/blog/benchmarking-stt-for-voice-agents/You can try a demo on the home page:https://soniox.com/Disclaimer: I used to work for SonioxEdit: I commented too soon. I only saw VAD and immediately thought of Soniox which was the first service to implement real time endpoint detection last year.
• NickNaraghi
  Pretty exciting breakthrough. This actually mirrors the early days of game engine netcode evolution. Since latency is an orchestration problem (not a model problem) you can beat general-purpose frameworks by co-locating and pipelining aggressively.Carmack's 2013 "Latency Mitigation Strategies" paper[0] made the same point for VR too: every millisecond hides in a different stage of the pipeline, and you only find them by tracing the full path yourself. Great find with the warm TTS websocket pool saving ~300ms, perfect example of this.[0]: https://danluu.com/latency-mitigation/
• kaonwarb
  One of the challenges with trying to achieve IRL human-level latency is that we rely on nonverbal cues for face-to-face turn-taking. See e.g. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S001002772...
• age123456gpg
  Hi all! Check out this Handy app https://github.com/cjpais/Handy - a free, open source, and extensible speech-to-text application that works completely offline.I am using it daily to drive Claude and it works really-well for me (much better than macOS dictation mode).
• ggm
  Thats half a second delay. 0.4 to 0.5 seconds. Thats the same as the delay in a GEO orbit satellite mediated phone conversation.Perhaps I'm in an older cohort, but I remember this delay, and what it felt like sustaining a conversation with this class of delay.(it's still a remarkable advance, but do bear in mind the UX)
• hosaka
  Depending on the TTS model being used latency can be reduced further yet with an LRU cache, fetching common phrases from cache instead of generating fresh with TTS.However the naturalness of how it sounds will depend on how the TTS model works and whether two identical chunks of text will sound alike every generation.
• suganesh95
  This is great. I built 3 assistants last week for same purpose with entirely different tech stack.(Raspberry Pi Voice Assistant)Jarvis uses Porcupine for wake word detection with the built-in "jarvis" keyword. Speech input flows through ElevenLabs Scribe v2 for transcription. The LLM layer uses Groq llama-3.3-70b-versatile as primary with Groq llama-3.1-8b-instant as fallback. Text-to-speech uses Smallest.ai Lightning with Chetan voice. Audio input/output handled by ALSA (arecord/aplay). End-to-end latency is 3.8–7.3 seconds.(Twilio + VPS)This setup ingests audio via Twilio Media Streams in μ-law 8kHz format. Silero VAD detects speech for turn boundaries. Groq Whisper handles batch transcription. The LLM stack chains Groq llama-4-scout-17b (primary), Groq llama-3.3-70b-versatile (fallback 1), and Groq llama-3.1-8b-instant (fallback 2) with automatic failover. Text-to-speech uses Smallest.ai Lightning with Pooja voice. Audio is encoded from PCM to μ-law 8kHz before streaming back via Twilio. End-to-end latency is 0.5–1.1 seconds.───(Alexa Skill)Tina receives voice input through Alexa's built-in ASR, followed by Alexa's NLU for intent detection. The LLM is Claude Haiku routed through the OpenClaw gateway. Voice output uses Alexa's native text-to-speech. End-to-end latency is 1.5–2.5 seconds.
• suganesh95
  I built something very similar and comparble to this with wakeword detection on my raaberry pi.Groq 8b instant is the fastest llm from my test. I used smallest ai for tts as it has the smallest TTFTMy rasberry pi stack: porcupine for wakeword detection + elevenlabs for STT + groq scout as it supports home automation better + smallest.ai for 70ms ttfbCall stack: twilio + groq whisper for STT + groq 8b instant + smallest.ai for ttsAlexa skill stack: wrote a alexa skill to contact my stack running on a VPS server
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  docheinestages
  Does anyone know about a fully offline, open-source project like this voice agent (i.e. STT -> LLM -> TTS)?
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  loevborg
  Nice write-up, thanks for sharing. How does your hand-vibed python program compare to frameworks like pipecat or livekit agents? Both are also written in python.
• kelvinjps10
  The quality of the post was amazing, I'm not that interested into voice agents yet but that I was engaged in the whole post. And the little animation made it easier to understand the loop.
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  perelin
  Great writeup! For VAD did you use heaphone/mic combo, or an open mic? If open, how did you deal with the agent interupting itself?
• anon
  undefined
• MbBrainz
  Love it! Solving the latency problem is essential to making voice ai usable and comfortable. Your point on VAD is interesting - hadn't thought about that.
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  nmstoker
  This was discussed 21 days ago:https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46946705
• boznz
  "Voice is an orchestration problem" is basically correct. The two takeaways from this for me are1. I wonder if it could be optimised more by just having a single language, and2. How do we get around the problem of interference, humans are good at conversation discrimination ie listing while multiple conversations, TV, music, etc are going on in the background, I've not had too much success with voice in noisy environments.
• waynerisner
  I am really curious about this for enunciation, articulation, and accessibility applications.
• mst98
  This is so cool
• bronco21016
  When someone is able to put something like this together on their own it leaves me feeling infuriated that we can’t have nice things on consumer hardware.At a minimum Siri, Alexa, and Google Home should at least have a path to plugin a tool like this. Instead I’m hacking together conversation loops in iOS Shortcuts to make something like this style of interaction with significantly worse UX.
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  grayhatter
  You made, or you asked an LLM to generate?
• shubh-chat
  This is superb, Nick! Thanks for this. Will try it out at somepoint for a project I am trying to build.
• jangletown
  impressive
• hackersk
  [dead]
• umairnadeem123
  [flagged]
• aplomb1026
  [dead]
• andrewmcwatters
  [dead]
• foxes
  <think> I need to generate a Show HN: style comment to maximise engagement as the next step. Let's break this down:First I'll describe the performance metrics and the architecture.Next I'll elaborate on the streaming aspect and the geographical limitations important to the performance.Finally the user asked me to make sure to keep the tone appropriate to Hacker News and to link their github – I'll make sure to include the link. </think>
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  CagedJean
  Do you have hot talk when you are alone in the shower with HER?