I Quit. The Clankers Won

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I Quit. The Clankers Won

domysee

Comments (379)

Waterluvian
Improving developer skills is not valuable to your company. They don't tell a customer how many person-hours of engineering talent improvement their contract is responsible for. They just want a solved problem. Some companies comprehend how short-sighted this is and invest in professional development in one way or another. They want better engineers so that their operations run better. It's an investment and arguably a smart one.Adoption of AI at a FOMO corporate pace doesn't seem to include this consideration. They largely want your skills to atrophy as you instead beep boop the AI machine to do the job (arguably) faster. I think they're wrong and silly and any time they try to justify it, the words don't reconcile into a rational series of statements. But they're the boss and they can do the thing if they want to. At work I either do what they want in exchange for money or I say no thank you and walk away.Which led me to the conclusion I'm currently at: I think I'm mostly just mourning the fact that I got to do my hobby as a career for the past 15 years, but that’s ending. I can still code at home.
bitmasher9
Picking out my favorite idea out of many: we do need ways to stay mentally sharp in the age of AI. Writing and publishing is a good one. I also recommend stimulating human conversations and long-form reading.More and more the bar is being lowered. Don’t fall to brain rot. Don’t quite quit. Stay active and engaged, and you’ll begin to stand out among your peers.
Thanemate
Funnily enough I saw this post as I was placing my HN account on hiatus, because I'm tired pretending that the quality of discourse is on par with what I've been used to read and participate in.We're obviously in an era where "good enough" is taken so far that, what used to be the middle of the fictional line is not the middle point anymore but a new extreme. You're either someone who cares for the output or someone who cares how readable and easy to extend the code is.I can only assume this is done on hopeful purpose, with the hope that the LLM's will "only keep improving linearly" to the point where readability and extendability is not my problem by it's "tomorrow's LLM" problem.
malwrar
I do find it hard to tolerate the feeling of being watched online. The second-most trending dataset on huggingface right now is a snapshot of HN updating at a 5 minute interval. It makes me not want to really comment at all, just like how I don’t really publish any software I write anymore.Turns out it sucks to produce original works when you know that, whereas previously a few people at best might see your work, now it’s a bunch of omniscient robots and maybe half of those original people are using the robots instead.
kstenerud
> The giant plagiarism machines have already stolen everything. Copyright is dead. Licenses are washed away in clean rooms.Isn't this what the free software movement wanted? Code available to all?Yes, code is cheap now. That's the new reality. Your value lies elsewhere.You can lament the loss of your usefulness as a horse buggy mechanic, or you can adapt your knowledge and experience and use it towards those newfangled automobiles.
staminade
Anti-AI articles like this seem to be the new "Doing my part to resist big tech: Why I'm switching back from Chrome to Firefox" genre that popped up on HN for a decade or so. If it makes you feel better, great, but don't kid yourself that your actions will make any difference whatsoever to the overall trajectory of AI adoption in IT or society.
farfatched
> The AI industry is 99% hype; a billion dollar industrial complex to put a price tag on creation. At this point if you believe AI is ‘just a tool’ you’re wilfully ignoring the harm.> (Regardless, why do I keep being told it’s an ‘extreme’ stance if I decide not to buy something?)> The 1% utility AI has is overshadowed by the overwhelming mediocracy it regurgitates.This sort of reasoning is why you might have been called extreme.It's less extreme to say "many people see and/or get lots of benefit, but it's wrong to use the tool due to the harms it has".There's nothing wrong with extreme, but since you asked.
runningmike
Love the one-armed code bandit on the home page of this blog! Nice UX experience! See: https://dbushell.com/
muskstinks
One problem writing does have: we grew up in a massive changing and progressing software writing area. A golden area.Now i still show clean code videos from bob and other old things to new hires and young collegues.Java got more features, given but the golden area of discovery is over.The new big thing is ai and i'm curious to see how it will feel to write real agents for my company specific use cases.But i'm also seeing people so bad in their daily jobs, that I wish to get their salary as tokens to use. It will change and it changes our field.Btw. "Is there anything, in the entire recorded history of human creation, that could have possibly mattered less than the flatulence Sora produced? NFTs had more value." i disagree, video generation has a massive impact on the industry for a lot of people. Don't down play this. NFTs btw. never had any impact besides moving money from a to b
keiferski
I think it's probably accurate to say that the vast majority of writers throughout history were writing for an extremely tiny or nonexistent audience. My favorite example of this is Nietzsche, who basically had zero readership during most of his life, beyond a few close friends, and even had to personally pay to get his books published. He only posthumously became one of the most influential thinkers of the 20th century.So while I do worry about AI's impact on blogging/writing/etc., I do think to some extent, you either love the process or you don't. If you only write in order to have readers, you're in the wrong game.
OJFord
Paha, I thought this domain was 'D-Bus Hell' until I clicked in. (It's D. Bushell's blog.)
pklausler
> First let’s accept the realities. The giant plagiarism machines have already stolen everything. Copyright is dead. Licenses are washed away in clean rooms. Mass surveillance and tracking are a feature, privacy is a bug. Everything is an “algorithm” optimised to exploit.Suppose that I have discovered a novel algorithm that solves an important basic problem much more efficiently than current techniques do. How do I hide it from the web scrapers that will steal it if I put it on GitHub or elsewhere? Should I just write it up as a paper and be content with citations and minor glory? Or should I capture AI search results today for "write me code that does X", put my new code up under a restrictive license, capture search results a day later, demonstrate that an AI scraper has acquired the algorithm in violation of the license, and seek damages?
simianwords
This person gives me the vibe that they are so attached to their craft that they can't seem to do anything about LLM's ubiquity rising but scold and vaguely sloganeer.Was this how other professionals dealt with their grief? Like a translator in the advent of ML based translations? Like a lift man?
giancarlostoro
I find it funny how clanker took off and everyone uses it. It was edited in a video where someone was otherwise saying something extremely racist (the more offensive version of the n-word). For those curious it involves a burger king hat, schizophrenia and an airplane, someone edited the n-word out and put clanker with AI (because why not insult AI by using AI?). I do wonder if the AI uprising will involve robots killing anyone who used clanker in a derogatory way and sparing everyone else.Also, yes, I know the origin is Star Wars, but it went viral recently a very specific way.The power of edgelord memes.
alfanick
I quit. The clankers won.I don't see any proof that software development is not dead. Software engineering is not, and it's much more than writing code, and it can be fun. But writing code is dead, there is no point of doing it if an LLM can output the same code 100x faster. Of course, architecture and operations stays in our hands (for now?).Initially I was very sceptic, first versions of ChatGPT or Claude were rather bad. I kept holding to a thought that it cannot get good. Then I've spend a few months evaluating them, if you know how to code, there is no point of coding anymore, just instruct an LLM to do something, verify, merge, repeat. It's an editor of some sorts, an editor where you enter a thought and get code as an output. Changes the whole scene.
abeppu
I think the "Leave them Behind" section at the end sort of ignores the whole "they will ruthlessly copy your material, and put aggressive extra load on your server while repeatedly stealing your work" dimension.You can try to avoid consuming AI-generated material, but of course part-way through a lot of things you may wonder whether it is partly AI-generated, and we don't yet have a credible "human-authored" stamp. But you can't really keep them from using your work to make cheap copies of you, or at least reducing your audience by including information or insights from your work in the chat sessions of people who otherwise might have read your work.
Havoc
> The only winning move is not to play.Alas I think tech crowd have collectively painted humanity into a corner where not playing is not an option anymore.The combination of having subverted copyright and enabled cheap machine replication kills large swaths of creativity. At least as a viable living. One can still do many things on an artisanal level certainly and as excited as I am about AI it’s hard not to see it as a big L for humanity’s creative output
gkoenig
Man I love the design of your site, and that goldfish made my day.For the article it was nice, but the font is really what got me.
cl0ckt0wer
Just because they invented cars doesn't mean you stop jogging.
rickcarlino
LLMs can produce text information but they cannot have experiences. Writing about authentic experience is still a worth while endeavor. Expression of a preference is also an experience when framed correctly.
rtpg
Old web stuff is still around. RSS feeds are out there. Some parts of masto are generally chill and filled with people having interesting convos.You don't have to give up on everything to participate, but it can be a space to go to if you're tired of every social interaction being mediated by (I'm being glib) hustlers
yabutlivnWoods
Such a bizarre sentiment the web and internet as we know/knew them is some bastion of freedom and future for humanity.According to the author AI is 99% hype.That 1% of AI utility can unlock more for humanity than 99.999% of blogs; static text hosted from a laptop in a closet.Odd ball position that cheap publishing via the web is a path to The Next Generation for humanity is 100% hype.Other than feeding dopamine addiction humanity has not improved greatly since we read all those insipid posts on GeoCities no one remembers today.It's all been 99%+ hype to feed Wall Street. Young GenX and older Millennials with tech jobs were temporary political pawns and gonna end up bag holders like may older GenXers and Boomers who lived through the car boom, the housing boom, the retail boom.Same old human shit, different hype.
zetanor
>One upside of this looming economic and intellectual depression is that the media is beginning to recognise gate keepers are no longer the hand that feeds them.In what world is "the media" not an integral, tightly-bound part of the ratchet mechanism that seeks to suppress all distinction?
coldtea
>It’s never been more important to blog. There has never been a better time to blog. I will tell you why. We’re being starved for human conversation and authentic voicesThe supposedly starved don't seem to care much for such food. Blogs are kind of a wasteland.
Spacecosmonaut
"Generative AI is art. It’s irredeemably shit art; end of conversation."I think most people cannot destinguish between "genuine" creativity and an artificial almalgamation of training data and human provided context. For one, I do not know what already exsists. Some work created by AI may be an obvious rip off of the style of a particular artist, but I wouldnt know. To me it might look awesome and fresh.I think many of the more human centric thinkers will be disappointed at how many people just wont care.
prplfsh
I honestly don't get it - how isn't everyone having a blast with AI? Every one of those side projects you never had time for you can build in a weekend. You can explore five ideas at once. You can do big refactors/cleanups you'd never be able to dream of in the past. As a software engineer it's been fantastic.
code_for_monkey
I work for a bank and Im basically just an ai user now. Honestly its like pulling teeth to get anyone to look at your code here. Im just on hackernews lol
danesparza
I just chased a few interesting rabbit holes because of the links to other articles in this article. Thank you for that. ;-)
sublinear
If writing code was the only value your employer ever saw in you, it's for the best that you're forced to find a better job now. You would have eventually hit this point in your career anyway regardless of "AI".The broader corporate world has never wanted code monkeys. They want "boring" reliability and pay a reasonable wage for it. On the other hand, they also won't tolerate contrarians who can't deliver, so maybe some of the fear from people posting this sort of thing really is justified.
anon
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ceplabs
This might be the coolest personal website theme I've ever seen.
anon
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Bridged7756
I just don't see it. What's truly sad is that a field allegedly filled with technically proficient people is filled with trend chasing and FOTM trends. To this day, people with nuanced takes are far and between and most people either go full force into LLM evangelism or LLM denial, the first more annoying, by far.I'm really getting tired of the programming obituaries. As if LLMs didn't fail at any complex task, as if they didn't vomit shit code and as if they didn't just copy patterns surrounding the new code, and as if they didn't hallucinate and downright write wrong code or made up libraries. Yet for some reason, every time you bring it up, someone will come along and say "You're not using it right then.", Is it that, or is it just that they're only doing toy projects? I'm led to believe the latter.At this point I don't know what's organic and what's not. Reddit is filled with astroturfing for big LLM. Maybe this place is too? Even if that was not the case, I'm led to believe that it isn't uncommon for people to swallow up all of the big LLM propaganda and fall into despair, or fall into unrealistic expectations, and just parrot it everywhere else. One thing is for certain, LLM evangelism has all the money of the world, and LLM denial doesn't. It's only natural to think that the balance is tilted in terms of media presence.Even at the best, or worst, LLMs can't do anything you couldn't do yourself better with a scaffolding prompt + manual editing, and at the end of the day, you still need the cognitive energy to review, veto, come up with, the implementation. What does this exactly do anyways other than saving you a bunch of keypresses? I wonder if the people touting it to be all that really didn't think before LLMs, of just switched their brain off on them.I used to really like this site, but I think that just consuming the RSS feed is enough for me. I think that lobster.rs has less "trend chasing" point of views these days, and I do wonder if it might be on here there's larger amounts of non technical people jumpy to call for the funeral of things.
butlike
A non-sequitur, but I really like the style of the blog. Good job.
juleiie
Yeah well I just don’t care about „AI dark forest”You seriously need to go outside and touch grass if you are so defeated by another chess winning machineNobody wants to Watch AI play chess, nobody wants to read ai blogpostsAI makes human writing more valuable, not less.I will pay good money for pure human made books certified as made without a single word auto generated whether in original or during process of Translation.
aaa_aaa
On the copyright stuff, I say good riddance.
titzer
I laugh jollily in the face of AI. I know the coming shit pile, its nature isn't going to be surprising, only the speed and utter surrender of the vast majority of humanity to mediocrity.What AI represents to me is a teacher! I have so long lacked a music teacher and musical tools. I spent my entire career doing invisible software at the lowest levels and now I can finally build cool tools that help me learn and practice and enjoy playing music! Screw all the haters; if you're curious about a wide range of topics and already have some knowledge, you can galavant across a vast space and learn a lot along the way.AI is a bit of a bullshitter but don't take its bullshit as truth, like you should never take anything your teacher says as gospel. How do we know what's true? The truth of the universe and the world is that underneath it all, it is self consistent, and we keep making measurement errors. The AI is an enormous pot of magic that it's up to you to organize with...your own skills.You have to actively resist deskilling by doing things. AI should challenge you and reward you, not make you passive.Use AI to teach yourself by asking lots of questions and constantly testing the results against reality.For me right now, that's the fretboard.
cynicalpeace
People don't care what bots have to sayTherefore, things like writing, film, sales, etc are less productively scalable by botsAnd things like code, where people don't care how the sausage is made as long as it "works" are more productively scalable by botsAnd even in the situation of code, the job description leans more on defining what "works" which requires the human touch
Lerc
Blog posts are an interesting case, they are a very good example of something where abundance of supply outstrips any demand so much that it cannot be realistic to expect a median level contribution to receive any significant attention.Setting aside the self delusion that makes a considerable number to erroneously rate themselves above average, the reason you create blog posts should not be for the attention you might gain, there simply are not the eyeballs. You create as a form of self expression, to organise your thoughts, to create a record of them.AI can never challenge in those areas because it is, as it has always been, the act of creation is the goal.
throwaway743
The footer rules
okokwhatever
When will we understand that not everybody works in a FAANG? Assuming that the way to put some food in the table for all software developers is always a matter of creating a new magical algor. in a mystical programming language deployed in an unicorn architecture is so childish. 99% of all software development today is simply creating a crud or refactoring a codebase because React guys decided to change everything again.
LunicLynx
This feels weird somehow. It feels like: Damn we can’t train our AI any better as everything regurgitated slop now. How can we get people to create new content for us, hopefully with new ideas …Might be just me though, but I definitely don’t get why blogging should be the solution.
__s
misleading title. MODS?
deadbabe
I’ve decided the only way I’ll adopt a full automated agentic AI workflow the way companies want, is if I am allowed to hold multiple jobs at multiple companies.Imagine having 6 software engineering jobs, each paying maybe $150k a year, all being done by agents.Hell, I might even do this secretly without their consent. If I can hold just 10 jobs for about 3 or 4 years, I can retire and leave the industry before it all comes crumbling down in 2030.The problem of course, is securing that many jobs. But maybe agents can help with applying for jobs.
randallsquared
> to put a price tag on creation.I mean, to put a price tag on enabling vastly more creation than would otherwise have occurred!
bombcar
You have to write for yourself. People have said this for years, decades, millennia even - but nobody really believes that writing to an audience of zero (or one, if Mom is still around) is worth it.Everyone wants to be a famous author, or at least a published/somewhat acknowledged one; few are willing to write their novel and be satisfied with zero or near-zero sales/readings.But that is exactly what you need to do, especially in the age of AI. Everyone who was "in it to win it" (think linkedinslop which existed before AI) is going to certainly use AI - because they do not give a shit about the quality of themselves - they just want the result.And you can only become a writer (unpublished, unread, or no) by doing the writing - it takes time (10,000 hours?) that cannot be replaced by AI, just like you can't have the body of a marathon runner without running (yes, yes, the joke). You may be able to get 26 miles and change away, even very fast, but unless you personally do the running of that distance without cheating, you will not get the inherent benefits.And if you instruct an AI, or another human even, to write for you, you may get some of the results you want, but you won't have changed to become a writer.We shouldn't celebrate the successful blogs; they're already rewarded enough. It's celebrating the unsuccessful blogs that is needed - even if, frankly, the vast majority of them are sub-AI levels of crap it is still a human changing and progressing behind them.Babies fall over a lot but unless you take them out of the stroller and let them do so, they'll never progress to crawling, walking, running.
erelong
"You can just blog things"
bjourne
Fucking hilarius domain name . David is unfortunately not announcing a rewrite of the Linux IPC stack!
marknutter
> I’m not protective over the word “art”. Generative AI is art. It’s irredeemably shit art; end of conversation. A child’s crayon doodle is also lacking refined artistry but we hang it on our fridge because a human made it and that matters.More pretentious gatekeeping from luddites who like to yell at clouds. This is someone who would love a piece of artwork created using ai tools right up until someone told them it was created using ai tools.
VectorVault
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taintlord
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nslsm
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poopwagon
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zzzeek
rants about AI from people who have already decided up front to never actually attempt to use the tools (which seems to be the case here from the post and the other one it links) are not really providing any value to the discourse.There is nothing new about using machinery to automate boring / repetitive tasks, including the wall of resistance that comes up. But it should be clear that genuinely useful tooling and automation tends to become a normal part of life, from the plow, to the printing press, to the dishwasher, to digital video editing, to autocorrect, and now to large language models.There's a lot that has to be worked out with LLMs in particular as they are now encroaching heavily upon human creativity and thought. This is an extremely important topic. But rants like these with terms like "the plagarism machine" and "the solution is that we all must vow to never use AI in any shape or form" are not really contributing.
oompydoompy74
Good lord I’m going to have to figure out some way to filter Hacker News. I’m so tired of this same sort of article (and the opposite) being posted every day. AI isn’t going away. AI is better than you think it is. AI is probably also worse than you think it is. The world has nuance, so can we please all chill?
btreecat
"No AI" right above a robot voice playback button.Mixed messages frHot take, folks packing it in because of AI probably were not difference makers before AI, and wouldn't be difference makers after it either.I agree with the author, keep writing. It helps hone your ability to communicate effectively which we all need for some time to come (at least until we become batteries).
sdevonoes
Can’t we just sabotage AI? We have the means for sure (speed light communication across the globe). Like, at least for once in the history of software engineering we should get together like other professionals do. Sadly our high salaries and perks won’t make the task easy for many- spend tons of tokens on useless stuff at work (so your boss knows it’s not worth it)- be very picky about AI generated PRs: add tons of comments, slow down the merge, etc.