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Comments (675)

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  Jimmc414
  The First Amendment applies to everyone on US soil, not just citizens. That’s settled law. The government can revoke visas for legitimate immigration violations, but it’s not allowed to use immigration machinery as a pretext to punish political expression. That’s exactly what they are doing. It looks like the courts will eventually put an end to this [0] but it won’t reverse the damage that’s already been done.I’m generally receptive to point the finger at Google’s intentions but in their defense, administrative subpoenas frequently include non disclosure orders. Google’s own transparency policies have always carved out (industry standard) exceptions for cases where they’re legally prohibited from notifying.[0] https://evrimagaci.org/gpt/judge-rebukes-trump-over-student-...
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  eurleif
  The linked Google policy states:>We won’t give notice when legally prohibited under the terms of the request.The post states that his lawyer has reviewed the subpoena, but doesn't mention whether or not it contained a non-disclosure order. That's an important detail to address if the claim is that Google acted against its own policy.
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  keithnz
  weird everyone's focusing on privacy and google.... Not the actual insanity of a government targeting people who are legally allowed to be in the US.You can try to find a way to keep things private, and many of the people on HN likely have the capability to do so. But hiding from your government because they are weaponizing your information against you seems to be the wrong approach. I just don't understand the American people just rolling over and letting their country / rights / freedoms just be obliterated.
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  eaf7e281
  I still don't understand. Who gave ICE such power, and who is ordering them to do all this? To me, ICE's actions are similar to those of a private army.
• tsoukase
  This incident validates the opinion that for an US citizen, it's better to hand over his private data to a foreign (read Chinese) cloud company than a US one.
• benterix
  > Am I now a marked individual? Will I face heightened scrutiny if I continue my reporting? Can I travel safely to see family in the Caribbean?As difficult as it sounds, we need to wait this crazy dude out, and do our best Vance doesn't take over.
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  Ardren
  > While ICE “requested” that Google not notify Thomas Johnson, the request was not enforceable or mandated by a courtSounds like Google stopped caring.But... Why on earth do the people filing an administrative subpoena not have to notify the interested parties too? Why is it Google's responsibility? If they didn't tell you, would you ever find out?
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  orbisvicis
  How was Amandla even identified? Stingray at the protest? Then how was the phone number linked to Google? Facial recognition at the protest? I guess his details are on file under terms of the visa? So then the government simply asks Google for all details on the individual by name? Either is pretty disturbing.
• cdrnsf
  The best time to ditch Google was years ago. The next best time is now.
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  WalterBright
  I simply assume that everything that travels out of my home through a wire gets tracked and stored by the government.Everywhere you go, if your phone is in your pocket, you are being tracked and stored, and available to the government.Everywhere your car goes, is tracked and stored and available to the government.BTW, the J6 protesters were all tracked and identified by their cell phone data.
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  jfoworjf
  This story is the one that finally pushed me to leave google. I moved off my ~20 year old Google account and deleted everything off their services including almost a decade of Google photos. I cancelled my Google one subscription for extra space. I'm now self hosting what I can and paying proton mail for everything else. I refuse to allow a company that will hand over data at the request of an administrative warrant to hold my data.
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  chriscrisby
  He disrupted a career fair because it had defense contractors.https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/oct/05/palest...
• Gasp0de
  It's ironic that the country that screams freedom loudest is actually not that free after all.
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  jmward01
  Privacy, technology and actual freedom overlap massively. Stories like this making it to HN are important since many of the people working at Google that had interactions with this, either by creating the tech or being aware of internal policy changes, read HN. Additionally many founders and decision makers in companies read these stories because it hit HN. Knowing that Google will do this changes your legal calculations. Should I trust them to store my company's data? Will they honor their BAA requirements if they are ditching other promises they made?People may be tired of seeing stories like this appear on HN, but getting this story exposure to this group is exactly why they need to hit the homepage.
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  ihaveajob
  "Don't be evil" they used to say.
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  440bx
  Promises are broken, policies are changed and political regimes vary. You need to make sure that you consider the future and not just now. And that means NEVER handing your data over in the first place.
• advael
  It's insane to trust a company in the way you trust a person. Companies can change their terms of service, their policies, or even their entire ownership or leadership at any time. We have seen over and over again that companies are seldom held accountable for even explicit breaches of prior agreements unless there's either collective action or someone very powerful affected. The only way to trust a company not to leak your data is for them not to have it. The only way to trust a company not to break their product or exploit you with it is for this not to be possible.
• lacoolj
  I would love more information.What exactly did the request for information say from DHS? What exactly was the reason for them to look for you specifically (certainly there are many others protesting)? Following up on that, how do others avoid something like this? What red flags should be avoided and how?There may or may not be a solid answer for any of this. But this article feels like it's made for awareness, when it could also be made for action, with the right details included.
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  enaaem
  What's up with America not allowing any critique on Israel-a foreign state?
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  woodydesign
  Every time this happens the debate goes the same way — trust Google or don't, switch to Proton, self-host everything. But the real issue I believe isn't whether we trust Google. It's that the data existed somewhere it could be taken from in the first place.I've been thinking about this a lot while working on a side project. I ended up making it work entirely offline — no server, no account, no network calls. Not out of paranoia, just because I couldn't come up with a good reason to ask users to trust me with their data. Turns out the best privacy policy is just not having anyone's data.
• dotcoma
  Google broke its promise… and the drunken sailor that I met last night who told me he loved me did not text back…
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  normal-person
  He was banned from the Cornell Campus for participating in a violent demonstration, inciting violence against Jews.It's very much not clear whether he is in a legal right or not. And no other country besides Western liberal democracies would allow anything like this. Certainly many Muslim countries do not allow it.As an aside, a pro-Palestinian African is a laugh. Do you think Palestinians give the slightest damn about black African's plight?
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  goosejuice
  We could and should have better privacy laws, though foreigners will always be subject to less protection.That said, a lot of this comes down to a failure in education around privacy and the cultural norm around folks thinking they have nothing to hide. The intuition most people have around privacy, and security, is incredibly poor.
• robrecord
  "Who, exactly, can I hold accountable?" Yourself. Don't trust Google, or anyone with big money and influence.
• radicaldreamer
  This is why E2E encryption is important
• anon
  undefined
• deIeted
  > for breaking that promiseeff are a joke "they pinky swore!"
• fblp
  Has Apple done this? Trying to figure out a safe place to store photos in the cloud without having to self host.
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  neya
  > In September 2024, Amandla Thomas-Johnson was a Ph.D. candidate studying in the U.S. on a student visa when he briefly attended a pro-Palestinian protest.Why would you go to a country for study purposes - where you explicitly tell the visa officers you're on US soil ONLY for study purposes - which is what the student visa explicitly grants you to do and then participate in a protest against the very country that granted you the study visa and then get mad that you are under investigation and would have been kicked out for violating the said visa? That's so bizarre.
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  diego_moita
  Does anyone remember when western nations were freaking out that Huawei would handle everybody personal data to the Chinese government?Now, please tell me that American companies are better at privacy than the Chinese ones.Btw, some alternative email providers in truly democratic countries:* ProtonMail (Switzerland)* TutaMail, Posteo, Mailbox.org and Eclipso (Germany)* Runbox (Norway)* Mailfence (Belgium)
• ilaksh
  It's definitely important to fight all the key battles including against companies like Google, but the root of the problem is the government. I would suggest that it 's worse than any particular government. At a fundamental international level, we don't truly have a civil society. Things operate on a strategic and often criminal basis. And there is a strangely prevalent pervasiveness of ethnic hatred and tribalism. And a fundamental lack of respect for human life.
• rbbydotdev
  > ...he briefly attended a pro-Palestinian protest. In April 2025, Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) sent Google an administrative subpoena requesting his data.incredible.
• pino83
  My simplified model always was: If you give it to Google (or MS, Amazon, Meta, ...) you basically already gave it to all these agencies.Was that ever wrong?
• SapporoChris
  When visiting other countries never take part in protests. Avoid areas where protests are likely to occur, travel advisories sometimes explicitly point out areas. It is probably best to avoid anything political."In September 2024, Amandla Thomas-Johnson was a Ph.D. candidate studying in the U.S. on a student visa when he briefly attended a pro-Palestinian protest."
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  speedgoose
  I used to joke that by using Google products, the NSA backups my data, but I’m not sure I like ICE having access to my YouTube history.
• democracy
  Google has been a fish (carp) for long time now, just as another boring corporation.
• satonakamoto
  If you live in the United States, use Russian email services; if you are in Russia, use Chinese email services; if you are in China, use Gmail
• exiguus
  Still waiting for the story that apple does the same.
• cycomanic
  It's fascinating to watch the absolute dishonesty/mental gymnastics of all the free speech absolutists who were crying that they could not say what they want on other people's platforms just a few years ago. Now they are justifying actions by the state (against whom the free speech protection was designed), with reasons like there were people at the protests who hurt a police officers feelings by shouting something mean. Let's remember this is the regime which pardoned people actively engaging in violence at the Capitol.
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  1vuio0pswjnm7
  What's interesting to me about this submission is that the author believes this policy document contains a "promise"https://policies.google.com/terms/information-requests?hl=en...I cannot find any promises in that document nor would I expect to find any. It's a policy not an agreementAt best, the policy contains "representations"The author might claim he was deceived by misrepresentations, and this deception had consequences for him, amounting to measurable harmBut proving these statements about Google's internal operations are false is difficult. Proving Google's intent in making them is even more difficultIt's incorrect to interpret a "policy" comprising statements about what Google allegedly does internally as an agreement to do anything in the futurePromises can be enforced through the legal process. Generally, Silicon Valley's so-called "tech" companies do not make "promises" to users that can be enforced. Imagine what would happen if they did
• jiveturkey
  > That notice is meant to provide a chance to challenge the request.That's the author's interpretation. The promise doesn't indicate anything of the sort (as of this writing). And users cannot challenge these requests -- users don't own the data (in the US). The promise is very clear that Google will provide the data, if the request is compliant.Now the text of the notification was past tense, that the information was provided, whereas the promise is crystal clear that Google will notify before providing the info, but to me that could amount to a simplification of "we have verified that the request is legally compliant and will be providing the info to them in 250 ms".Don't get me wrong, I'm not on Google's side. I'm a huge privacy nut. But the fix is to not give your info to Google, not trust that they will abide by any policy. Especially in a case like this where your freedom is at risk. Most people are completely unaware and unthinking but this guy seems that he was fully aware and placed his trust in Google.
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  paulddraper
  The author not say whether the subpoena prevented advance notification.The Google policy he linked to says:> We won’t give notice when legally prohibited under the terms of the request. We’ll provide notice after a legal prohibition is lifted.
• jsmo
  Thanks for sharing, this should get more attention.
• anonym29
  A promise from google isn't worth the pixels it's presented on.
• asdfman123
  This is a good reminder that you should assume there's no privacy on the internet whatsoever, unless you really go to extensive lengths to cover your tracks. And even then, you have to be really careful.
• nullc
  It's not just ICE that can abuse subpoena to get your data-- scammers and other fraudsters can file a federal lawsuit against a bunch of John Does and then run around issuing subponea for records to attempt to uncover their identities.There appears to be no defense against this beyond not allowing companies access to your data in the first place.
• slowhadoken
  Obama set the record for deportation. I wonder if ICE used similar methods when he was president. There might be a roadmap for digital invasion of privacy going back that far.
• hypeatei
  The fact that they complied with an administrative subpoena makes it so much worse. "Administrative" anything essentially has about as much value as toilet paper unless it goes to court and the judge agrees with whatever agency wrote it.
• northernsausage
  USA, are you ok bro?
• kartika36363
  this is just a case of play stupid games win stupid prizes. total non issue.
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  pixel_popping
  Huh, I don't think anyone expect Google to maintain privacy for them, Google deliberately leak 500K user info to various governments, every year [1].https://transparencyreport.google.com/user-data/overview
• sodapopcan
  Stop using google, ffs.
• k33n
  Left wing agitators will continue to FAFO tbh
• aussieguy1234
  If Trump was able to imprison other political opponents who were not immigrants, he would do it.Take this as a warning.
• LightBug1
  "You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain" - Larry Page, Sergey Brin, Eric Schmidt - chanting to each other after a round of ayahuasca.
• incompatible
  There isn't much further to go down the slippery slope it seems, if he only did what he claims: attending a pro-Palestine / anti-genocide protest at a university for five minutes.
• einpoklum
  Unfortunately, "Google let the government have my private data" is right up there with "President Trump said one thing yesterday, and now he's saying the exact opposite" in the what-did-you-expect hall-of-fame.
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  convolvatron
  an apropos bit from the NYT today:President Trump pressured House Republicans on Wednesday to extend a high-profile warrantless surveillance law without changes, declaring on social media: “I am willing to risk the giving up of my Rights and Privileges as a Citizen for our Great Military and Country!”Mr. Trump urged the G.O.P. to “unify” behind Speaker Mike Johnson for a critical procedural vote that had been scheduled for late Wednesday night. The vote would clear the way for House approval of a bill extending a major section of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, or FISA. The law is set to expire on April 20.The statute, known as Section 702, permits the government to collect the messages of foreigners abroad without a warrant from American companies like Google — even if the targets are communicating with Americans.
• sneak
  I've long maintained that anyone who has a personal email address ending in @gmail.com is clueless, both about digital privacy/security, but also about society, history, and geopolitical events.It was a decade+ ago that Snowden explained to us, with receipts, that the USG has warrantless access to everything stored in Apple (iCloud Photos and iCloud Backup are unencrypted and contain a copy of everything on your device), Google, Microsoft, Amazon, et al. You have to be an ostrich with your head in the sand to not be well aware of this at this late juncture.You'd have to be a moron to let the feds read all of your mail without a warrant by default - any country's feds.
• jauntywundrkind
  It must really really suck to be a data-holder, that every single government out there views as some piggy bank, sitting there waiting to smash & grab.It's certainly been quite the turn recently. But being between the people and the governments that seemingly inevitably will turn into arch fascist pricks & go to war against the citizens is not an enviable position. Hopefully many jurisdictions start enacting laws that insist companies build unbreakable backdoorless crypto. Hopefully we see legislation that is the exact opposite of chat control mandatory backdoors. It's clear the legal firewalls are ephemeral, can crumble, given circumstances and time. We need a more resolute force to protect the people: we need the mathematicians/cryptographers!
• consomida
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• Unsponsoredio
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• fredthompson
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• mark-frost
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• khana
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• boxingdog
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  h4kunamata
  TL;DR: Trusted an American big tech with your data, what did you expect??A brand new car.Paying the price of your own choices.
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  avazhi
  [flagged]
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  sMarsIntruder
  [flagged]
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  shevy-java
  [flagged]
• guelo
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  josefritzishere
  This is so wrong. What's the solution? Google class action lawsuit?
• chungus_amongus
  rare google W
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  malux85
  I feel bad for both sides in this. Google can be put under so much pressure by the government, they are basically forced to do what they says; yes they can fight it, but if the government wants something badly, they will get it, they have powers (especially under the very broad definition of 'national security') to just get automatic compliance, using the same powers they can silence the companies from publishing anything about it too.I of course feel bad for the student here too, he should not be targeted for exercising his rights to peaceful protest.But Google is not the enemy here, I would bet good money their hand is forced to comply and their mouth is silenced. The enermy here is the overreaching government and ICE
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  renewiltord
  Recently in SF, the police have been very open about their use of drones to follow thieves (completely violating their privacy). It is like China where there are posters telling you drone surveillance is in effect.I think we need to expand CCPA so that the government cannot simply spy on you by claiming that “criminals” are near you. Even criminals should have their privacy protected or else they will just label everyone criminals.
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  forinti
  Such are the times that he feels he must say that he only attended the protest "for all of five minutes" and that he was protesting "what we saw as genocide".He is almost ashamed of his views because of the current climate but he didn't do anything wrong, apparently.
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  quadrifoliate
  Honestly, I think the author is expecting too much from companies that are under jurisdiction of the US Government, especially in the situation as of 2026. It is telling that when they say "federal government" in the article, they implicitly mean the US Federal Government and not those of the UK or Trinidad and Tobago.The author (in my opinion) needs to raise this with their own governments (UK is probably the one where they can get better action) to push for data sovereignty laws so that it's at least UK or Trinidad and Tobago that are the governments involved in investigating their data, via appropriate international warrants.
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  xnx
  Weird to be more upset at Google about this than ICE or the other parties involved.
• pcblues
  If you were loyal to the country you chose to live in, you would support the protection of their people, not yours. Ask the Somalis.
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  pcblues
  Overseas citizen foments government trouble? That's terrorism in Australia. Should be in yours and the countries you raise trouble in.
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  shoman3003
  Just fyi, you deserve what happened to you. I am Palestinian & what you are doing is turning our situation into a social trophy.Maybe you guys should read about what you are supporting first.
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  grzegorzx2
  I believe there are many US citzens discussing here. I always wanted you to ask: do you ever wonder why there are retaliations related to pro-Palestinian protesters in your country? Do you think sometimes why your mainstream media name them always this way while they actually are anti-Israel protests? Are you aware about anti-boycott regulations which you have since many years?I think this is much more important than what big-tech do.