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Comments (445)

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  emtel
  One of the most frustrating things about HN is that people seem so unaware of how idiosyncratic their preferences are. If you stood on the street corner and asked every passerby what they would change about their phone, I think you would be there all day before someone said "I wish I could replace the battery".It's okay to have idiosyncratic preferences (I certainly do), but people should recognize that this law will make phones _worse_ for most people, because this law will force phone manufacturers to compromise the things that most people want in order to provide something that most people don't want.I suppose someone will say that this law is necessary for environmental reasons, regardless of people's preferences. But that's nonsense, because the law doesn't actually require people to replace batteries rather than replacing their phone, and by the time batteries wear out, most people are going to want a new a phone. At the very least we'd need to see some data that shows that most people replace batteries when it is possible to do so.
• drooopy
  In order to have my iPhone 11's battery replaced by my local apple authorised repair shop, inexplicably I have to leave my phone with them for days. Since the phone is old they have to order the battery from Apple and that could take up to a week, according to them. Of course it's impossible to stay without my phone for a week+ so my only option is to buy a new phone if I want to fix my battery capacity issues.
• rootusrootus
  As long as it does not make the phone bigger or compromise the water resistance, I support the requirement.But it is not super high on my list. Every 2 or 3 years I pay less than $100 to have a new OE battery installed, takes about an hour. There are other features I would put a higher priority on - like a good small phone option now and again.
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  twilo
  If a battery can do 1000 cycles and remain above 80% capacity it is exempt from this, which is exactly what Apple implemented a few years ago.Low cost phones will be most affected.
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  konschubert
  Aren't today's phone batteries already replaceable with commercially available tools? I can walk into a non-apple store with my iPhone and walk out with a replaced battery 20 minutes later.This isn't even what drives obsolesce of phones, it's software updates.If you really want to be able to self-swap your own battery, you can just buy an Android that has a replaceable battery.Do we need to regulate something that isn't a problem? All regulation has downsides, is it worth paying this price here?
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  cmos
  What if we regulate batteries even more? i.e. what if, in some magical perfect world, the world get's together and agrees on batteries for phones like how we agree on AA,AAA,D,C batteries? Even more though.. a standard connector, a standard comms bus, a variety of sizes, and they were designed for reuse as efficiently as possible.Now we can scale up volume, swap them out, be free to purchase from a different manufacturer, and have scaled up recycling services.
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  mancerayder
  Every single Pixel upgrade I made - every single one - in the last decade has been because of battery life.This law will be tragic for Google and Apple. What will compel people to upgrade their functional phones?
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  blinkingled
  Now they only need to make sure that a supply chain for replacement batteries exists, there is regulation and competition and options remain available for a reasonable price.There are plenty of old Dell and HP laptops with replaceable batteries which can only be found on eBay or some random seller that does who knows what under the refurbishing process.
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  PaulKeeble
  Batteries have been used as part of planned obsolescence for too long and a whole small business industry of replacing phone batteries has appeared because of it. Next the EU are going to have to address security patches because its another aspect being used to sell new phones.
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  mentalgear
  I was looking forward to finally be able to easily switch out (i)Phone batteries again - after 20 years - but turns out the lobbyists managed to get a loophole in the law - exempting Apple & Co from making their phones more repairable / longer live-able.> If a battery can do 1000 cycles and remain above 80% capacity it is exempt
• concinds
  Seems to me like the top goal should be: you can easily replace the most-likely-to-break parts (screen, back, battery, etc) in any local independent repair shop, with genuine parts that have low markups.I'm confused why that still isn't the case today given all the EU headlines we've seen over the years.
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  jurschreuder
  Ironically the EU also demands phones are water proof.And they say this will save consumers money, but I will this not also make all new phones way more expensive?
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  999900000999
  >The regulation states that batteries must be removable using ‘commercially available’ toolsThis is doing a lot of work here. There's enough wiggle room for this to be absolutely meaningless. Anything short of I can slide off the back cover and maybe unscrew two or three screws to replace the battery means that a lot of people are going to end up not being able to replace the batteries.
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  thangalin
  While this is a good step forward, it feels like complaining about the 0.025% of plastic from straws in the ocean while ignoring the 75% of plastic from fishing nets.I own a 2020 Kona EV. The battery cannot be upgraded. Eventually, I'll have to replace the entire car to get a longer range. BEVs should be mandated to have upgradable batteries and modular interfaces so that the shell can continue to be reused, the batteries (and BMS) upgraded, and old batteries easily recycled.
• seba_dos1
  I have never used a phone without easily replaceable battery (where "easily" means no screwdriver necessary, just pop the backcover and pull the battery out). It just happened this way, but I think I'd refuse to buy one anyway, as aside of obvious repairability and maintainability issues having the battery sealed in is also a big factor that makes dropping the phone so dangerous. When I drop my phone, the battery is easily set free to disperse its kinetic energy away from more fragile parts of the device, so it's much harder to break the phone this way. I have made some small dents and scratches from drops over the years, but no serious damage.
• azalemeth
  This is excellent news. Now make them have user-unlockable and user-relockable bootloaders...
• ibrahmAly
  Well, Nokia phones used to be good phones with replaceable batteries.
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  schubidubiduba
  Recently replaced the battery and charging port of my Fairphone. 5 screws, two plucked components, done. Hopefully this means that soon you won't have to buy a specific company's phone for this marvelous experience.
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  int32_64
  I still sometimes miss the Samsung Galaxy I had that had a microSD slot, a removable battery, and a headphone jack.Phones have lost so much in a decade.
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  bickfordb
  Aside from an easily swap-able battery I would love for an iPhone with a double thickness screen that was less susceptible to cracking and built-in rubber bumpers so I wouldn't need a case.
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  anygivnthursday
  And next we could have mandatory security patching for 5 years to make it worth replacing the battery on an old phone. I would say right to repair should apply to the firmware/OS as well.
• Night_Thastus
  I hate to say it, but the lack of removable batteries serves a purpose. It wasn't done just because 'screw consumers'.It was done because:* It makes phones massively easier to waterproof* It allows for larger batteries* It allows for more compact and lighter phonesConsumers, based on what they buy, have shown again and again that they want these features.It also simplifies manufacture and lowers costs, which everyone likes.I like removable batteries. If I had the option, I'd get a phone with that feature. But I know that I am certainly in the minority, as is almost everyone in this thread.It's also worth pointing out that these days, battery and software have advanced to the point where degradation is quite slow in many cases. The phone will often outlive its useful life due to specs rather than battery.
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  1970-01-01
  They (Samsung, Apple, etc.) should never have been allowed to glue it behind the screen. Threaded fasteners and a silicone gasket cover is good enough for 99.999% of the public use-case.
• Havoc
  Neat. That may allow repurposing phones as mini home servers too.Lithium batteries in things running 24/7 unsupervised always makes me a bit nervous
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  pwdisswordfishq
  What good are replaceable batteries if the software becomes obsolete and un-upgradeable by the time you need to replace the battery?
• oever
  Awesome!And next, hopefully, replaceable software.Which will do much more for phone longevity.
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  bhouston
  Will this affect the water-resistance of current iPhones? I thought that was why the batteries are not easily replaceable by users, because of the seals/gaskets.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dyL6hMZvWQ
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  Aissen
  Next: replaceable storage? Since flash-based storage is widely known as a consumable that tends to fail first.
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  binaryturtle
  How about computers to have replaceable SSDs? There's no point you can exchange the battery when the hard-soldered SSD dies first. (I had more dead SSDs than batteries)
• miduil
  I wonder if this is the reason for Google not majorly renewing their Pixel line since Pixel 9 till 11.
• rcarmo
  Now all we need is that they honor the requirement for at least one physical nano-SIM so that we are not beholden to carriers to do something as simple as switching phones when travelling--or in an emergency.
• pnathan
  This is good. I recently had to replace a generally working phone because the battery was dying and there was no cost effective & reliable means of replacing.A proper gasket and screws needs to be the standard solution here.
• dkobia
  It seems like the whole world could massively benefit from this much like the other great innovation out of the EU -- the Common Charger Directive (aka USB-C).
• Bad_CRC
  Gigaset makes IP68/MIL-STD-810H smartphones with removable batteries and sold the battery for 30€, don't fall for the "but watterproof".
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  LazyMans
  This might be shifting us closer to worse overall design/performance to accommodate swapability. The pouch cells are very fragile, with the phone itself being the physical protection for the cell. If end users begin to handle these, you likely have to add additional packaging to the cell which increases the overall dimensions or reduces total capacity to maintain the same size.Maybe it's for our own good, maybe we have to suck it up and lose a little capacity to meet sustainability goals. Or maybe this won't do much for the environment.
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  mytailorisrich
  Considering that this, and other, regulation is officially aimed at reducing e-waste, the EU should commit to publish independent data on the amount of e-waste and phones replacement rates now and every year afterwards in order to measure the real world impact.Too often, including in HN comments, those regulations are presented as "obviously" good policies. Well, data are better than assumptions.
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  larusso
  So this means no iPhone Air 2 in Europe? I can hardly see Apple wiggle around the special tools requirement when these batteries are glued and sealed shut in the devices.[edit] didn’t see the fine print with the cycles requirement etc. so it seems Apple etc is still safe.
• kevin_thibedeau
  They need a standardized battery. Something with common terminals and width available in a range of thicknesses and lengths would be ideal.
• jwr
  I recently bought a Supernote Manta. It's an e-ink writing tablet. Guess what: it has a back which can be opened, and its innards are easily accessible. I could pop in an SD card, and the battery can be replaced, too. It's thin and light.We are being gaslighted by Apple. They keep telling us that it's impossible to have a thin and light device with a user-replaceable battery, or even, heaven forbid, an SD card slot. I beg to differ: there are some compromises (it won't be as seamless perhaps and Jony Ive or whoever won't be able to wax poetic about the materials), but it can be done.I would imagine something similar is true for waterproofing. There are certainly ways to have a separate battery and phone, with a waterproofed connector.
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  EcommerceFlow
  What percent of iphone users would take a sleeker, slimmer phone over a replaceable battery?
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  gbeardish
  They should extend the principle to laptops, obviously.
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  daoboy
  I understood that the move to non-replaceable batteries was at least partially driven by water resistance*Edit. Not sure why people are downvoting. I didn't make a positive declaration. HN didn't used to be this way for completely milquetoast comments.
• MBCook
  I thought USB-C was already required.
• cgannett
  Hopefully the EU can get the battery situation to mirror the charging cable situation. IE force them all to adopt an industry standard.
• maerF0x0
  I mean, I paid like $100 to have apple do it on my iphone 13 mini. It took a few hours and my phone works approximately like new. If a $800 phone's battery lasts 4 years, it's very much worth $100 to get even a couple more years out of it...Next time I will also by previous generation rather than the newest model.
• ape4
  As a non-European I want to say: thanks EU
• nkmnz
  Well, 9 more months until I’m going to replace my iPhone 12!
• noja
  Hot swap batteries! Who's going to offer THAT first?
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  tzs
  > The move comes amid EU-wide efforts to cut the continent’s carbon footprint and tackle mounting waste [...]...> [...] if specialised tools are required, they must be provided free of charge when the phone or tablet is purchased.So if a family buys several phones and tablets that all use the same specialized tool to change their batteries they end up with several identical specialized tools?From a reducing waste perspective wouldn't it be better to just require that the tool be available for free for some reasonable amount of time such as however long the manufacturer is required to support the device?
• htx80nerd
  I dont care about replacing the battery but doing a 'battery pull' is very useful sometimes. Esp when Android locks up.
• romanovcode
  This is amazing news.However, doesn't Apple already provides this? You can go to store and switch your battery for like 60 EUR or so.
• bethekidyouwant
  They’re just going to change the software for thebattery so that it only charges to 80% capacity so that it meets the requirement of 1000 cycles no one is actually getting replaceable batteries. Edit: commercially available tools. All right so you just sell that tool on your shop.
• Fokamul
  I hope someday EU will implement requirements for phones -> You must be able to flash any firmware (OS) on your phone, without any restrictions.This is much more important, than batteries.
• everyone
  Awesome! hopefully apple will just stop selling their filth here entirely.
• arjunthazhath
  Dude I dream of a day where there will batteryless phones with no requirement to charge. That would be pure bliss.
• tomaspiaggio12
  This is idiotic. What's next, disallowing unified memory or SoC with packaged memory? These people think they know better than world experts on these matters.
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  gib444
  Have they researched durability with replaceable batteries and can promise us phones won't break more often?
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  hparadiz
  Now do screens.
• fleroviumna
  [dead]
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  nslsm
  Damn, recently I had a phone with a battery that wasn’t properly glued and it would turn off when shaken. I hope this doesn’t become the norm from now on.
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  infecto
  I am simply not a fan of this type of legislation. It reminds me of CA bullet button. I also don’t quite understand the purpose. Official retail cost from Apple in the US ~$120. Third-party you can usually get it around $60. Sure the battery does not have quick accessibility but I can replace it pretty cheaply.
• yyy3
  Phone manufacturers should be able to seal their phones to prevent unwanted substance egress and to compete on aesthetics. They should also make the seal breachable with consumer-grade hand tools like a hairdryer, suction cup, and plastic wedges.The inside of the phone should use standard screws and securing mechanisms, and batteries should not be glued to the phone.I actually really like what Apple's been doing with its new batteries by sealing them in metal. That way if a user is being careless and accidentally slips a screwdriver under the back of their phone, the risk that they puncture their battery and start a fire is greatly reduced.It secures the most dangerous component of your device in a way that makes it easy for anyone to remove and replace safely. I'm sure Apple has a robot to rip the battery out of its case at its recycling plant, and if the phone gets dropped in a lake or something, if that battery eventually catastrophically fails, at least it's wrapped in a suit of armor.
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  gcanyon
  Yikes, I don't live in the EU, but I absolutely don't want this. Maybe I'm mistaken and they could have achieved the same with removable batteries, but my phone is completely waterproof, dustproof, and has survived more than a few hard drops with no case. I would definitely take that over a replaceable battery. Again, I acknowledge they might not be mutually exclusive.