HN

Comments (24)

• Menu

  trb
  Considering other metrics then p99 for user impact is unwise. All users will at some point experience a <1% request, it's not like half of all users will only send requests what will be under your median latency, some of their requests will hit your worst-case.By focusing on the tail and optimizing worst cases you help users more than by improving your median latency.
• Menu

  uberex
  > More technically, what’s going on here is the inspection paradox. Alex and Alice don’t experience your latency distribution , they experience a t-weighted version of itOoh I got pushed in the 2m end of the pool there. What is the intuition? The ten hundred most popular words sort of thing.I am very interested in this article though. At first I assumed it would be about TTFB vs. time to render the page after all those async useEffects have run, but it isn't that this is something else and I am very interested.
• Menu

  rustybolt
  This article contains very little substance. Show me the math!
• amluto
  I found this article to be a very poor explanation of what (I think) it’s trying to say.I think the point the article ought to be making is much better handled entirely separately for request time and for outages. For outages, it goes something like this: if you have a 1 hour outage, and your user notices that outage, they think you had a 1 hour outage. [0] If you do statistics that observe that you also had ten thousand 1 second outages and thus had an MTTR of under two seconds, this does not excuse your 1 hour outage in the slightest. And the longer an outage is, the more likely that any given user interacts with your service during the outage.But the article is oddly caught up in this t-weighting idea, without justification. What does the statement that “Alex and Alice experience E_a[X]” even mean. What’s X? Is it the distribution of request times? If so, then I don’t see the article’s point — if I, a user, sample a bunch of requests, I recover an approximation of X, not X^2. And I really hope that X is not intended to be the distribution of outage lengths because I think the conclusion is just wrong as I alluded to above. Sure, if I happen to sample your service during an outage, the probability that I sample any specific outage is proportional to the length of that outage, but what about all the times that your are (hopefully) not having an outage? What if you have two consecutive outages that are so close to each other in time that I don’t think you recovered?It would be entertaining to make an outage website. I’d pick a distribution over outage lengths. At time 0 I would sample that distribution, get an outage length t, and declare myself down until time t. All requests during that “outage” would report “hey, I’m down, and my outage length is t”. After the “outage” the site would sample again and repeat. This would give the answer in the article. But this is, of course, absurd.[0] To be pedantic, they may not notice the beginning of the outage. This is a constant factor correction.
• Menu

  perching_aix
  I've grown to dislike the typical tail measurements completely. What I usually look at these days is what share of unique users experience an "unacceptable experience" over a measurement period instead.I find it much more inquisitive and visceral, to the extent that p99 now boggles my mind. 2N would be dreadful as an availability figure, yet for UX it's treated very different. So much so that my measurements corroborate exactly that; good UX requires the same many-nines reliability as e.g. DCs, not one or two.I wonder if it's p90 and p99 to blame for the shoddy services we have, in a way. It's pretty hard to argue for fixing something when it's presented as only going wrong 0.5% or less of the time after all. Even if at scale that means most of your users are experiencing it weekly.
• Menu

  ggm
  Interesting you work at Amazon and show how end user experience weights to their pessimal experience.So.. apply that to Amazon design heuristics like author name search on books, and how Amazon return "in the style of" and "not a book but this guy called Charles Dickens makes jigsaws" as high order matches and consider how the end user experience weights to the pessimal yet Amazon can show on average they make more money doing this..(Understood that engineers and AWS don't influence UX in the storefront or search)
• anon
  undefined
• anon
  undefined
• Menu

  zaik
  Is the formula for E_a[X] trivial? I don't see it immediately...