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Comments (143)

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  blaze33
  In 2011 I got a 143€ reimbursement from Dell for an E6420 laptop that I had bought for 910€.Maybe I got lucky but I called the customer service, told the lady I did not agree with the Windows license terms, fully ready to argue my case and she just went "oh, ok, let me just edit a new invoice and wire you the money for Windows plus the Antivirus plus etc.".Which was extra nice because I had no idea I was in fact charged for the bloatware, but I still got ~50€ for it on top of the OS license price.This being 15 years ago it feels like a forever unsolved issue. My opinion remains the same, that a personal computer should not be tied to a specific OS. But now with smartphones the hardware/software (de)coupling situation seems even worse.
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  AnodicElegy
  I switched two of my PCs over to Linux Mint last week. The automatic driver support is shockingly good compared to when I last installed Linux on a PC (almost 20 years ago). It even found a driver for the random no-name USB wireless receiver I bought on Amazon, whereas I had to install that driver manually on Windows.Part of my motivation was that one of the machines was still on Windows 7, but more than anything it was the incessant push to associate my OS account with an online Microsoft account, and the cramming of Copilot into everything, that have left a bad taste in my mouth.
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  gwbas1c
  Seems like it makes a lot more sense to buy a computer without Windows preinstalled.> Device manufacturers and vendors should not impose an operating system or software on consumersThis is not a reasonable expectation.Hardware needs software to work, and software runs on an operating system. You can't expect every vendor in the work of every kind of product you can buy to offer you a slightly different version than you would like to buy.
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  vkaku
  This is great. It tells you how many manufacturers make it easy and difficult to get refunds. ASUS is the most specific one, albeit their refund range is between 9 and 65 EUR. Great work.
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  haute_cuisine
  It's unfair that apple gets an easy pass on this, as well as any mobile device.
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  chrismorgan
  Looks like this is Italy-only.I’m pretty sure (though I have no record of it) that I asked ASUS Australia through their online channels before I bought my current laptop six years ago, and they said no. I never tried following it up more closely. In truth at that stage I didn’t mind having a Windows license, it was convenient for testing certain things occasionally. But I haven’t booted into it for at least three years now other than a couple of times to verify that the keyboard problems are hardware, not software.
• trelane
  Just getting your money back doesn't make it work well with other operating systems.Instead, buy hardware from vendors that ship hardware with the operating system you want to use preinstalled, and with support you can contact to get help if something breaks.
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  bodge5000
  I havent used Windows in years so maybe somethings changed, and far be it from me to get in the way of someone taking them down a peg, but this bit confused me:> The vendors do not remove the Windows license, and you must pay the entire price, even if you do not want to use this system.Surely if you don't want Windows you just boot from a usb drive and install another OS without having to pay them anything. Its not like Windows can stop you from installing another OS, right?
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  hmokiguess
  I think some manufacturers offer the ability to buy hardware without software preinstalled and have the software as add-ons you can opt-in. That should be the way.
• MoonWalk
  Site blocked as "not secure."Oh well.
• tolerance
  Is the money refunded related to the cost of the OS license? Why not just advocate that manufacturers and vendors don't pass the cost off to consumers?
• flaep
  Since one can get a lot of models with and without Windows, I would suggest to ask the seller to get a variant without windows. This way availability sorts it self over time. Vendors do not want to sell Windows Notebooks, seller just demand only windows notebooks. OEM/ODM will however only test some linux distributions and very likely support none.
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  opengrass
  Lenovo, ASUS and Acer only. Dell takes orders without Windows.
• c0lpan1c
  Thankfully my work places have had MSDN and/or Technet. I'd use VLKs or request 5 keys per version.
• shevy-java
  The last laptops I bought had no operating system pre-installed other than some DOS variant or something like that. I installed Linux on them. So, not that I have anything against the website mentioned, I think people who want to avoid Windows, already can do so. The bigger issue I see is that people are often not very computer-savvy, in particular the older generation; the younger generation often knows how to handle computers better, to some extent (yes, even smartphone-only folks). For the elderly, Linux is way too complicated. And it wasn't really simplified sufficiently.I do wonder whether AI may change that. Now, I don't think so, and I hate AI, but have a look at Omarchy from DHH. Personally I would not use it for many reasons (including the fact that DHH goes on my nerves), but IF the underlying rationale is that people can use Linux in an extremely simplified manner, then this is a good thing.
• tosti
  You can always get your money back with Linux and any of the BSDs. The claim will have been accepted and processed before you've even filed it!
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  piokoch
  That's why I like Lenovo, you can just buy version without OS.
• 6c696e7578
  PCWorld in 2009 declined to split the laptop and OS. They offered to refund the whole purchase, but that would obviously leave me without a laptop.Utterly pointless waste of time. If I see a vendor offering Linux/FreeDOS, I buy that.If you've had any success in the UK getting a refund, please correct me, but I think time is probably better spent writing to the MP about it as the consumer should have choice when the options are MS or Apple.
• lain98
  I bought a windows license, it didn't come preinstalled with my PC.I still want a refund. I feel pretty stupid.
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  LoganDark
  > consumers can refuse to install Windows and receive a refundIANAL, but Windows is already installed, so IMO this wouldn't apply. OOBE is not installation, it's setup.Judge's verdict seems solid though.
• luxuryballs
  am I the only one that feels like this is kinda tacky on principles, but also how much is it really worth the time, and if you ever resell or VM windows on that same box you can use your baked in license, seems like a small amount of money that is baked into your laptop cost already and they purchase in bulk, I am not convinced the effort of making this campaign was even worth the squeeze and it def is going to be more expensive for vendors to support than it would be for them to increase the price of their products in response...
• system2
  Maybe don't buy the product with Windows on it? Without an operating system, people won't buy the laptops, and with Linux, the majority won't buy them. This is bs.
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  p2detar
  I finally found the time this year to replace my parents' old T-series Thinkpad Windows 8 with Linux Mint. I also upgraded the hard drive to an SSD. The result - a 15 years old machine i5 Dual Core with 6GB RAM now boots and works extremely fast as compared to before. Also with USB and wireless mouse support out of the box - I didn't have to touch anything.Sorry, if this offends anyone, but Windows (non-Server editions) is a junk OS that I never ever want to see or use again.
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  G_o_D
  So after fighting windows for 30yr i also have started searching for linux os to switch to. Might feel weird initially but its a must now.60% of my time spending on windows is wasted in refreshing/slowstartup/installing bloat and updates/.Clicking next > next etc multiple time just to install one software.Winget is not upto mark like apt and other unix package managers. As soon as i install chocolatey or 3rd party it starts to stall even moreInitially i formatted whole installed fresh no external or extra software just bare bone fresh win 10 installYet its slow as turtle. And windows standard installation iso is 5gb multi iso. So it waste a lot of my bandwidth. Plus it does'nt let iso download on desktop browser. And only with phone useragent you get downloadable link, and phone doesnt have much space to store 5gb file Cherry on top even if i download 5gb file on phone i cannot transfer it to pc as standard usb is limited to 4GB per file. So i had to install additional ssh or feem or other software for wireless transfer. Or had to use non standard browser on phone to capture download link copy it to pc and downlod.Even after that creating unattended installation is mess and require ntlite or other and hours of waste. And now newer isos despite adding ei.cfg and pid.txt the version selection menu does not appear it enforces installation of win10 home the native laptop was bought with. So hours wasting to upgrade it to pro.So finally this year i decided to move to linux. Keeping window as secondary. But could noy decide due to myriad of varieties. Choice is majorly between Mint or Fedora
• inscitekjeff
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• throwaway613746
  [dead]
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  josefritzishere
  Each version of Windows is slower and more bloated with spyware than the last. I want a refund for everything since XP.
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  nekusar
  I bought a pack of Win10 pro keys for $5 a key. Gray market site, but 100% legit.The few times I needed a key, it worked the first time. And for a friend who needed Win11, the upgrade from 10 Pro to 11 worked first time.I'd never pay more than $5 per Windows key. But I prefer Linux instead.
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  swozey
  I don't even know how I got Windows 11 at this point 900 reinstalls later. I build all my own pcs. I must have paid for a key at some point, potentially.
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  petcat
  > the vast majority of laptops are only sold with a specific proprietary operating system: Microsoft Windows. The vendors do not remove the Windows license, and you must pay the entire price, even if you do not want to use this system. This is unfair and we want to change it! Consumers should be able to buy laptops without any specific operating system, and should not have to pay the license price if they don't want to.How about this: don't buy a product that you don't want.If you don't want Windows, then buy a product that doesn't come with Windows. Buy from System 76 or another vendor that sells the product that you want.