Finder is so frustrating and has been since day one

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Finder is so frustrating and has been since day one

maltch

Comments (137)

Sat_P
Since buying an M1 Mac at launch, I’ve always been able to find most things with Finder. Prior to that, I was a Windows user since school in the 1990s, and windows search was absolutely useless. So glad I moved to Mac.
muppetman
As a Windows user for years until 2 years ago, I can’t believe how unusable finder is. It’s just terrible. I feel like it actively hides the filesystem from you at every turn.Windows was bad but at least Explorer (windows 10 version anyway) let you easily SEE the file systemI’m sure as hell not buying a subscription project to fix that though lololol
Lt_Riza_Hawkeye
Finder is frustrating but this guy is just complaining about the fact that he's unable to organize his own files into directories in a way that lets him find them later. He then calls himself a power user. Finder even has tags to help with this, which is more than most operating systems get
cosmotic
I really like Finder. It's consistent, reliable, accessible, and predictable. There are easy ways to see the real file system and windows certainly doesn't do any better in this regard (see: libraries and other namespaces).
userbinator
Thinly veiled marketing post.I've had to use Finder, and it's definitely frustrating in a "Think Different" sort of way, but this article doesn't actually mention why beyond vague statements.Here's a concrete one: Enter enters rename mode.
SwellJoe
My most recent laptop purchase was a Macbook Pro, because the price/performance is just so lopsided with the price of memory pushing everything up to Apple-like prices, it didn't make sense to buy an x86 laptop. But, coming from Linux it's a miserable user experience. I genuinely hate macOS. Every time I use it, I'm surprised by some weird thing about it, some limitation, some annoyance, some weird bug. Installing software is ridiculous. And, yes, Finder is weird for the sake of being weird.I simply don't understand how Apple has the reputation it has.
eszed
Thanks for this. I'll give it a try, though I'm not someone who experiences much frustration with Finder, because I maintain a solid folder structure, and use Alfred (first) for virtually all file interactions.The deciders for me, in case you're interested:- Privacy. It doesn't look like you are trying to get my data. I'll be using network monitoring to verify.- Automatically groups like files, regardless of file location. Yes, I know I can do this manually with tags, but I... don't.- Polish. The screenshots make it look like a native interface. Bonus points if I can set it to hide until mouseover, like my dock bar.I'm most curious about how it will function alongside Dropbox, particularly with cloud-stored files. I have several times my HDD in Dropbox (largely in folders shared with me); I know Keptor won't be able to read stub files, but if it greedily downloads and fills up my HDD it'll be an instant day-killer and uninstall. If it reads on-device files, and then stores a sparse representation so it can still present them in a list once they've been removed to the cloud it'll be great; I will manually sync and de-sync some folders to get them into the data. (If it incrementally syncs cloud files to my device, reads them, and then pushes them back up it'd be amazing, and I'll buy a lifetime license immediately - but I'm not sure those permissions exist.)
xnickb
Wow. I'm a Linux user and I have to use Mac for some work related tasks. I genuinely hate Finder and was going to lean back and enjoy reading this article.This went into a direction I didn't expect at all.
davidee
Finder is indeed frustrating. "Recent" seems like an attempt to fix this without the need to use some giant camera roll?The (hard) problem is that almost every finder alternative/add-on I've tried is someone else's ideal workflow that still doesn't sit well with me. I find KDE's Dolphin similarly frustrating - for very similar reasons.Both work marginally better (for me) when used in concert with the quick-find tools like Alfred (or Spotlight) and KRunner. None of these are perfect.Showerthought: maybe the "find files" interfaces aren't the worst offenders; maybe it's the "place files" workflows that are problematic and we're trying to solve the wrong problem?
arjie
In the end, it turns out for me that the classic explorer Tree View is the most intuitive. I know where things are as a sub-tree system. I get that hard links etc. complicate this and perhaps there are smart folders etc which do not fit this model well but I find I frequently want to “Go Up” in the hierarchy and this requires an uncomfortable shortcut on a Macbook (arrow key) or a menu button rather than a toolbar icon.But these are complaints. The right answer is to see if I can build a file explorer for MacOS that behaves in the fashion I desire.
coffeesoda
I agree! I've been building this alternative file browser called 'Overlap' which uses Mac's tagging system. Mainly for images. It suggests tags based on Apple's photo classifier & similarity to your own tags. You can also explore data using a visual Venn Diagram. https://github.com/cruxxxxxx/OverlapBy no means perfect but it's helping solve my moodboarding needs.
kqp
I’d like to propose a rule that all the Finder bashers in this thread accompany their complaint with at least one concrete example.I’m no Apple fanboy, but blind hate is just as bad as blind love, and so far 100% of the specifics brought up have turned out to be people who just don’t have a basic familiarity with the software. I genuinely don’t begrudge a person sticking to what they know, but it’s a point towards what’s good for you and maybe whether it’s intuitive, not towards whether Finder is objectively good or lacks features. I’d be happy to read both real issues and people learning more about Finder, but just “Finder sucks” doesn’t help anybody.
mosura
The problem with Finder is historic. The classic Mac finder was a work of art, if you are the sort of person that arranges things spatially, but most programmers are not. Hence NeXT created something else which got merged back incoherently into what became OSX.The Risc OS filer remains king, largely because managing windows on Risc OS is much more tolerable.
fl0id
So it's like fancy "last used" in finder?
microflash
At this point, I've come to live with it. I do use Supercharge[1] to fix some of the warts.[1]: https://sindresorhus.com/supercharge
dvt
> Computer folders are still organized in structures set up some 50 years ago. Operating systems change. Computers change. Search changes. But this has never changed. I can't change that.And we've been using the Dewey Decimal System for like 150 years. Both are good systems. Kepter (a visual/gallery system) would break down when looking at more than a dozen files (or when files are very similar). I don't really think it's a good idea.What we desperately need is a system-wide (or at least documents-wide) semantic/vector search, which is basically a weekend project and a $4.99 one-time purchase.
flyingshelf
I think you're gonna lose a lot of comments here to the "Finder" word here. The problem is not the Finder but directories, which exist on all operating systems.With that aside, this is a great idea for most files. Of course my images are still in folders with the projects they belong to, but my life photos are in one stream. Files, contacts, a lot of data would benefit greatly from this visualization.As for people with 1000 files on their desktop, who cares, they are as good as hoarders and they get what it comes to them. Discipline helps both in the real and in the digital world.
stack_framer
This looks cool, but my least favorite things about Finder are not actually related to finding things. I prefer column mode, but:1. When I right click, I can't create a new file of any kind. I can create a new folder—sometimes (see the next point).2. If the folder is full, it's virtually impossible to right-click an empty spot to create a new folder. You have to scroll all the way to the top/bottom and right click the very narrow spot between the folder and the header/footer.
runxel
I don't get it. Finder is okay. Yes, there are some idiosyncracies, but once you got to know them (e.g. when coming over from Windows), it's smooth sailing - and much better than the Explorer.Why is seemingly every single person on HN unhappy with the Finder?
ElijahLynn
Finder is one of the reasons I quit Mac. Main reason was that I had a knack for crashing it. And really not a fan of their marketing department not being completely in sync with their engineering department. Great marketing! But spent like five grand on a desktop Tower Mac and final cut Pro could not use all the cores. This was probably about 10-15 years ago.
marcelo-earth
Also Spotlight worked decently until a few years ago, but not anymoreDoes anyone else experience this? Like it freezes when searching for programs?
rbanffy
If we are complaining about the impossibility of finding the files you touched in the past few days, what are your impressions of using Office (Word, Excel, PowerPoint) in conjunction with SharePoint and OneDrive? Oh… and don’t forget shared files in Teams channels.
BatchJob
I rather enjoy Finder as a power user and software engineer who stopped using windows 20 years ago. Although I do have to use it for work occasionally. Windows explorer is nothing to crow about. Its definitely worst of breed. It misrepresents the file system more than any tool I have used and its a buggy disgusting piece of software that has 3 generations of windows trash still left in it that MS refuses to clean up.Say what you want about Finder, but only a Windows devotee would dare put Explorer in a pile of anything to emulate. It is the worst of all possibilities and in that sense fits the host OS to a "T"
bhaak
I expected people here to recommend several dual-pane file manager (aka orthodox file manager) as a replacement for Finder.But I see not a single comment recommending one? No good UI ones on macOS?
ivm
Surprised by the rest of the comments because I genuinely like Finder more than any other file manager I've used. I run it in column mode all the time. Space-to-QuickLook is also amazing.
sdcfgy
Finder is fucking dire. I spend more time on the terminal.The vertical column mode is useless as file names are always too long. It forces you to drag and drop and open loads of windows rather than cut and paste via menus. Open vs rename is fucked up. Half the machine is hidden initially. Hiding file extensions is just broken. Every view seems to forget what state it’s in. The file copying and continue copying thing fucks up network drives. cp is actually an order of magnitude faster. The icons at the top are shit. All the keyboard shortcuts require mutant hands that only emacs users have. The trash can semantics of “put back” are just crap. It crashes at least once a day for me. I could go on for days.Windows 10 is notably better.
anon
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exhilaration
How do I fix search on OSX? I can never find anything, even when I do the name contains search.
pjmlp
I see no reference to using Finder in 1990, and original flaws.
arisAlexis
Recently switched to Mac and I always have this question mark like how can this be so bad after decades and why is everyone cool with it
gedy
Finder is really limited in many ways but it's one of the only FM that supports Miller columns, which I use quite a bit.
pcunite
Coming from Windows, what's outrageous about Finder, is that when I'm looking at a SMB share has is named the same as a local directory, it is very confusing as to which location is which. Scary. Like, show the full path! Not "Folder" at the top. Just crazy.
abacadaba
and dont even get me started on the missing backspace key..
VCFundedGenYer
Finder is missing so many basic features that explorer.exe and Linux file managers have had standard for decades.Simple things like easily copying paths (and no, not with a weird keyboard shortcut nobody uses - a simple GUI method, preferably with an address bar, which Finder also lacks), copy queuing (pause queued copies rather than shotgun them all at once), cutting files (FFS why is this feature outright missing? There is an awkward keyboard shortcut to move a copied file but it's frankly not the same), broken views (icon view sends most files offscreen, and even maximizing doesn't bring them back into the confines of the window), idiotic keyboard shortcuts (Cmd O opens a file, Enter renames it? No other OS does this). I could go on and on.Finder is a rare case in macOS where Windows actually outclasses it in every way.
taormina
HN hug of death.
golemotron
It's so bad for me that I often drop down into Terminal, find there (with 'find') and then use 'open'. I'm very used to doing this.I've just assumed that Finder is fine for non-technical user so no one complains. But fair point. It can be fixed.
ch_sm
unpopular opinion apparently, but i don‘t understand the finder hate. as a real-life, non-software-developer user, i couldn‘t care less about library folders, root folders, or a unix-tradition file system at all. i want my folders with my documents, pictures, etc. to me that‘s far more user-friendly and comprehensible than what explorer exposes to normal people.
StarlaAtNight
I’m now a full Mac user (personal + work), that came from Windows. Hate to say it, but Windows Explorer is better than Finder
anon
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lapcat
This submission appears to be a self-promotional advertisement by the developer, who created a HN account literally an hour ago."Please don't use HN primarily for promotion. It's ok to post your own stuff part of the time, but the primary use of the site should be for curiosity." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.htmlIf anything, this should be a Show HN.
hirvi74
I find this entire rant to be utterly ridiculous. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but I do not think there is anything wrong with Finder. It's honestly no worse than any other file manager that I have used. I much prefer Finder to any alternative I have tried.I really enjoy the various keyboard shortcuts [1]. I honestly wish more file managers had some of these features. I probably use "shift+command+g" the most. It's so nice being able to jump through Finder like changing directories in the terminal.Honestly, for more complex tasks, I actually just use the terminal anyway.[1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/102650
animanoir
[dead]
iwontberude
[dead]
LeBit
Water is wet.Finder is by far the worst file manager ever created.
hkpack
Computer files are very unintuitive concept for humans. That’s why iOS / ipadOS were trying so hard to get rid of files completely. Because any research shows that whatever your solution is - users don’t get it.Professionals came up with their own ways navigating through that complexity.Most people prefer the first solution there were introduced to. So people preferring Windows Explorer were using it before Finder and vice versa.People also don’t spend time learning their tools - that’s why you see a lot of complains in this thread for things that are right in the menu, you don’t even need to read help or ask google, just open the damn menu. And this is HN - a forum for “power” users who spend immense time using their computers.
tpmoney
Apple has repeatedly over the years attempted to create interfaces where knowing where the actual data was saved was no necessary to using and finding that data. iTunes, iPhoto, most of iOS.It’s usually met with a lot of resistance from people who have carefully and painstakingly crafted their perfect file hierarchies and hate it when Apple messes with that.Some of the content recognition stuff in this seem pretty interesting, but I’m not sure that “everything in a single folder with preview thumbnails turned on” would be less “frustrating” for me than the current finder paradigm. This seems like it’s aiming for the iOS photos interface but for all of your files. In general I find searching for one specific photo in that interface to be more frustrating than knowing a hierarchy it would have been saved under. But for finding recent photos and finding a cluster of temporally related photos it is better. Is that a paradigm that works for all files too? For recents probably, but I’m not sure I often look for temporally related files. Still, this is a neat looking program/project, and like I said the content recognition stuff does seem interesting.