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Comments (245)

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  korzinka
  I've bought an LG Smart TV 5 years ago, read t&c where I was supposed to grant them any data they wanted, decided to disagree and kept all network functions disabled. I was ridiculed by my friends for that. At some point, I thought - maybe I'm really crazy to do so? Who am I, a caveman, a luddite? Oh well, I'm not. Not a bad tv though, many HDMI ports!
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  spockz
  Okay. This is insane. First the monitor that uses a windows feature to automatically install a small helper tool with root permissions and then starts showing adds in certain regions. Now a tv that is actually actively snooping around on top of the known fingerprinting. What else is next?In the previous topic I got ridiculed for not wanting to buy LG anymore because I could use an agent to modify to strip out the offending bits.But there must be something better than just keeping to buy things that invade our privacy and homes further and further. Which brands aren’t doing this? Sony? They also announced a partnership for the lower end TVs IIRC.
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  touwer
  Funny, published on a site with 1745 'partners' who fully respect our privacy of course
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  rickdeckard
  This is quite a mixed set of topics mangled together, which is a pity because IMO a cleaner separation would be more beneficial to get the point across.1. The Ad data-collecting platform TV-manufacturers are operating, what data they collect and how they use it.2. The vulnerabilities of the OS in a SmartTV, and the potential issues to exploit them for malicious purposes.3. The general behavior of the device when connected to your network, with features like voice control, App control, Smart Home etc. enabled, and how it may expose information about yourself.All the points and scenarios in the video might be valid, but they are not sufficiently grouped into one of the above categories.Instead, it just mixes them all together to imply that its all the same, weakening the whole investigation.--The plain example: Using voice-input for a web-search on the TV [0], make long pauses and observe how it keeps populating the prompt-UI with everything you say. This is a matter of #3 above, accusing a malicious intent already on such a trivial implementation topic is harming the whole story[0] https://youtu.be/6IFVTcM28KA?si=oVqX6NtkxPmqh6R-&t=2951
• dwayne_dibley
  My 20+ year old dumb samsung TV needs replacing, and has done for a while. But it's stuff like this that makes me shy away from upgrading.
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  Lio
  In an age where AI can search vast amounts of data having something in your home or workplace turning what it hears into text looks like a problem waiting to happen.E.g. As soon as someone proves LG, Samsung, etc. recorded and stored credit card details and knowingly have weak security this is going to be a massive business liability.That's an easy one to put a compensation figure on but there's probably all sorts of other exploits waiting to happen.I think the most egregious thing here is that if you don't give the TV a network connection that it will actively search for other ways to get the data back to LG such as open WIFI.
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  ninjagoo
  Telescreens [1] are here!War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength. [1]Would you like to know more?[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telescreen
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  rickdeckard
  Watching the actual investigation video the article is based on, it turns out that alot of the statements in the article don't really hold up to closer scrutiny.I couldn't find any "smoking gun" or discovery of malicious intent.What's left in the end is the already-known fact in the tech-community: The most-common, most-vulnerable and most-equipped device to spy on you in your home is your Smart-TV.1. It has all the compute-power and sensors it needs2. It already does some spying for ad-profiling3. If a hacker exploits it, it's a problem
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  8fingerlouie
  My TVs are on the IoT network so that I can control them from Home Assistant, but they're blocked from accessing the internet.DNS lookups are redirected or blocked (53 redirected to my local DNS resolver, 853 blocked), and DoH is blocked as best effort though it's hard to block HTTP DNS traffic, which again is why the devices are blocked in the firewall.All streaming is done via AppleTV, which is a platform I trust infinitely more than LG/Samsung/whatever.
• alex_duf
  What would the HN crowd recommend for a good linux streaming box + hardware with decent TV UX and remote?My LG is completely offline and I'm using an nvidia shield to display any content, but I'm thinking maybe I need to go the extra mile, there nothing preventing an android tv box to do the same.
• HelloUsername
  Ongoing discussions:"216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49592375"LG TVs aren't the only ones spying on you [video]" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49575176
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  ionwake
  I know its important to put things down to coincidence whenever possible, but a very expensive Bang OLufsen ( I think they use LG ) TV would turn itself off at "the" most interesting split second moments during gameplay , to the point where I thought "if I am being pranked by a friend, does this TV even stream its contents?".Much to my surprise I found out that many modern TVs do in fact come with dev mode that allow some sort of screen capture.Safe to say I turned off all the "allow metrics and market/dev modes" and have been happier since.EDIT> Incase anyone was wondering I did some more research about my model ( im NOT a TV guy ) and came across this regarding what screen content could technically be passed remotely: "Most probable raw grab: ThinQ/SSAP on the LAN after pairing — ~960×540 JPEG. Live Plus/ACR: most probably sends a fingerprint, not a retrievable raw frame." No idea what it means but thought it might be relevant. Remember Im saying in my case it was a coincidence.
• 1970-01-01
  The only appliance that should come from the factory with a microphone is the telephone.
• c16
  It's been fun to see people re-writing and flashing their own smartwatch software with LLMs. Looking forward to the first TV OS rewrite video.
• maxglute
  TFW LG OLED without internet access probably flirting with neighbor's connected LG fridge and LG washer and sharing all my gossip to Chaebols anyway. Just waiting for Chinese OLED to commoditize far enough that you can ship a bare panel with outputs for development. Reality is Korean companies do have enough competition / incentive to value engineer down. There's no reason 5/10 years from you can't just buy a nice OLED panel and a 3D printed shell from ali like eink now. Except more sanctions I guess.Seems like just a matter of time gig work license plate scanners also wardrive around with open access points to harvest info from "unconnected" smart devices, if not already.
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  acd
  This is the same behaviour as the german secret police in east germany. The difference now its for ads and by tech. All collected data are probably ai transcribed from audio to text and is fused via data fusion to serve ads. Add collaborative filtering to find similar interests between users.
• edf13
  Be interesting to know the true cost of smart TVs without the subsidized benefit of tracking that the "smart" element has.A comparison of a dumb 4k panel vs the equivalent "smart" tv for example>
• trilogic
  Is all of them, every "smart tv" does it, even after adb, permission restricting or rooting. Insert a (non infected) usb lamp in your tv and see the lamp turning on when your tv is off. It notifies you about the background activation activity :) Interesting to see when exactly get active (is it keywords or nearby devices or scheduled processes)? Can´t be keywords as that would mean 24/7 active and the lamp says otherwise.
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  medwards666
  This sort of blanket data collection needs to be made illegal in every single jurisdiction, and have _very_ robust penalties for anyone found in breach of them.
• hawshemi
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49563839
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  hypfer
  I'm practically certain that there was no ill-intent by LG when conceiving this feature. It was most likely just a convenience thing.But I am also practically certain, that, eventually, any pile of data will attract ideas you do not want attracted.
• anon
  undefined
• alsetmusic
  The thing that everyone thinks their smart phones do is true of their televisions and they probably won't discuss it.
• gonzalohm
  I'm convinced Google TV firmware does something similar. I have an LED bar connected to the TV via USB and from time to time the bar turns on but the TV is "off". I think it's silently turning on to send some kind of telemetry.
• JumpCrisscross
  This is automatic liability in California and the EU, correct? Does Illinois consider one’s voice pattern to be a biometric? If so, there, too.
• p0lychromatic
  Granted, I only watched one hour of the original video, but I get the feeling the way it is presented is a bit dishonest.A lot of the "silent listening" they show in the video is on a TV they rooted. They start recordings through arecord manually. Or, when they show the transcripts from the recording, the AI voice search is clearly visible on the screen and was manually triggered by something.Now, does a smart TV need all that hardware? Is a compromised TV a security hazard and smart TVs need to learn more in terms of security from modern smartphones in terms of privacy indicators, attested boot and more?Sure.But I do not see enough evidence that the TV is actually voice capturing all this stuff on its own, without any notice.There is plenty of stuff on the video regarding the network scanning, ACR and more that is definitely concerning. And this is something LG actually does by themselves (when you agree to their ToS / privacy policy).However, I think that mixing the ACR / network scanning in with "let's root the TV and actively start recording ourselves" mixes the narrative of "what LG actually does" versus "what a compromised TV can actually do", and makes it seem like LG is just recording, transcribing and submitting voice transcript automatically by themselves.This was not proven here. And I feel that GamersNexus is just risking a lawsuit here by not separating these different concerns clear enough.
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  rob74
  Makes me glad I bought a Sony TV which has the microphone on the remote - and is compatible with older remotes without a microphone, so the new remote with its microphone and sponsored streaming service buttons gathers dust (without batteries inserted) while I use an old remote.
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  Gualdrapo
  I could buy a tv in late 2014 and happened to be the last batch of bravia tvs pre android tv. Back then I was kind of bummed out that just a few weeks after that they announced the first tvs with android tv and now i was hooked with a smart-but-not-that-smart tv with a bunch of crappy ads, an unusable web browser and a non-customizable os.But they stopped updating it years ago, none of its apps work anymore and the only "smart" feature that still works is screen mirroring feature. The tv part itself still works great. Not a 4k oled 120Hz shiny impressive thing but the image quality is still great. What I thought was an unlucky adquisition back then turned out to be a pretty good one.
• monkeydust
  Wait, do LG Webos TVs have microphones in the TV and/or in the remote? I am aware of the latter only.
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  egorfine
  They just won't stop, will they?
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  mohsen1
  I absolutely loathe my LG smart TV. Just switching to another input requires 3 button press.I hope someone uses their free time to hack the OS and offer a clean and simple interface to make it a “dumb” TV.
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  kklisura
  Is there a difference between a LG TV in EU and in USA?
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  prmph
  Just don't buy a smart TV. Buy a good "dumb" TV (or just get a good large monitor), then hook it up to a set top box (with TV capabilities as needed).
• rcarmo
  I've had several conversations about this over the years, usually about the EU and how they keep harping on Apple (for instance) because it's a highly visible brand while they completely ignore LG (and others) and their massive data collection devices that (by the way) are in every single European institution.And many government officials' households, too.Just saying.
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  in_vestor
  Why are people so infuriated by Flock cameras but just completely shrug at this (much worse) TV thing?Nothing is going to change until people are that enraged by it.
• xuhu
  When the first TV ships with a battery to keep running while unplugged, I'm dusting off my soldering iron and my digital circuits handbook.
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  tombardier
  My LG C5 is in a separate VLAN, with no access to the rest of my home network. I've never accepted the terms and conditions, and I don't need anything from it other than to be a display for my 4k player and PC. I guess now I'm going to remove Internet access from it altogether!The thing I'd like is if the remote didn't have 4 buttons for crappy streaming services I will never use, but instead had 4 buttons to select the HDMI inputs directly; but no, I have to press a button, wait for the stupid laggy UI to load, navigate or point and click at input I want, then do the same to the preview window. A tedious pain in arse for basically the one main thing I use the remote for. It annoys me no end, and it seems to me that the last thing LG care about is the UX; they've put all their efforts into underhand and user-hostile profiling.I also have a Roku Ultra for streaming, which I very rarely use. I don't expect they treat their users any better and they use ACR too
• userbinator
  Almost 13 years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6759426
• shevy-java
  These are spy devices. It is sad that the industry has become so addicted to sniffing - the problem I see is that they can no longer stop doing so, as they built an additional network around that yielding money to them.
• balazspapp
  Isn't observation of LG's operation a violation? I mean it may fit the category "Intercepting live telemetry packets as they travel from the client machine to the company's servers can violate the Electronic Communications Privacy Act (Wiretap Act)"
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  noisy_boy
  All devices in my home sit behind adguard. The TV can try all it wants.
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  gruelsandwich
  As an owner of a (2020?) LG WebOS TV, to what degree can I fight this? Any point in trying Pihole with targeted blocking of certain IPs?
• morissette
  Why I don’t have a tv
• zerof1l
  I have a rooted LG C4. Beyond blocking things at the DNS level, not accepting terms, not using AI, I wonder if there’s some existing software solution or a documented step-by-step to remove this bloatware/spyware.
• brador
  SKorean intelligence on China (and Japan). This will not be easily regulated. The intelligence value is huge.
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  chimpontherun
  the only TV I have connected to the home network (guilty, I admit), Sony OLED 65, ARP floods my network about 12-15 hours after "turning off". On a plus side, it doesn't appear to be streaming anything out: no local DNS hits, not enough outgoing traffic for any meaningful audio streamThe choice between privacy concerns and ineptly coded network stack is tough. But that's the choice we're forced to have
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  like_any_other
  I will remind everyone again that weev was raided by the FBI, arrested, and had all electronics seized, before getting a chance to defend himself in court, all for the crime of publishing emails he found on unsecured URLs he was able to guess.But we're allowing 1000x worse things, because what, there's a vague line about it buried deep in some EULA, which means laws no longer apply?Lets treat them the same. Raid LG, seize all of their electronics, at least in the US (other countries are encouraged to do their own raids), arrest the executives, and after they're all in jail, and digital forensics are poring over their products and servers to find what else they did, they can argue in court how actually all these crimes are legal.It's only fair.
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  polotics
  GDPR compliance lawsuitssss in 3...
• CommanderData
  I posted two comments on similar threads recently. This is only going to get worse.> Not long until companies partner with Amazon and others to send traffic automatically through their near-by devices like smart speakers, disconnecting will be impossible.Not surprised if this is happening already. I don't want to remove radios out my TV..> Samba, a media intelligence company have several partnerships with manufacturers to take screenshots and collect metadata.Viewer analytics are valuable to companies like Samba, they aren't the only ones. Laws ASAP, these companies will lobby hard to stop anything of the sort.
• robin_reala
  I mean, I’m not disagreeing, but it’s a bit rich for a site that logs data to 1,745 “partners” to be complaining too much.
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  Y-bar
  notebookcheck.net:> We value your privacyShares my browsing info with 1745 "partners" with no clear way to opt out (which ought to be opt-in by the way to be compliant with ePrivacy and GDPR).
• VerifiedReports
  Clearly the penalties for this are not high enough, because the scumbags keep doing it.Vizio TVs were caught taking screen grabs and phoning those home years ago.
• anon
  undefined
• randobando772
  [dead]
• ErigmolCt
  [dead]
• jiaosdjf
  [dead]
• anon
  undefined