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Comments (246)

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  petcat
  Flock and ALPR usage is solved in USA if every state adopts New Hampshire's law:* Illegal to collect every plate for later analysis* Must delete "non hit" plate images within 3 minutes* Strict forbidden to upload "non hit" camera imagery off the deviceI would add that it should also require a warrant to access the ALPR data, but it's a great start.https://gc.nh.gov/rsa/html/XXI/261/261-75-b.htm?utm_source=c...
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  rootusrootus
  I can see some nuance to this one. Flock is intended to be searchable by law enforcement, not Joe Average. Tracking cops and then publishing that information is not exactly the same as turning Flock back on the Flockers.I think the best solution is to just say nobody can do this, including the government. Or that if we allow things like Flock to exist, then we'd need actual legislation that tightens considerably how available the data is to be searched, and what approvals are necessary to access it.The obvious next step, otherwise, is for someone to start OpenALPRMap and we all get to suffer together.
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  cryptoegorophy
  Why is nothing being done about this? This is 1984 we were laughing about. USA laughed at China when they did the same, but when USA is doing the same people are not outraged shooting those down, painting over them. Am I missing something?
• tintor
  Someone should build OpenFlock which only tracks and makes public movement of city council members who voted for Flock cameras in their city. For empathy.
• erelong
  They don't like getting a taste of their own medicine now, do they?
• BeetleB
  I called it a few days ago[1][2]:> Balance of power. Not only can the cops watch you - you can watch them.[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49995885https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49995811https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49995932[2] As did many others, of course.
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  jwsteigerwalt
  It’s Canada, silly to expect the same standard of civil rights as their southern neighbors.
• phyzome
  Fantastic, I love it. (I mean the activist's work, not the cops trying to scare him into stopping.) These kinds of projects are needed to give government officials some empathetic understanding of what they're doing to the people.Keep up the good work!
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  vamos_davai
  This is government overreach. Everyone should be allowed to run a surveillance system. People should be allowed to sell biometric data to each other, to corporations, or to the government. Such a restriction is preventing so many jobs from being created.
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  andy99
  I feel like this isn’t the best way to draw attention to the problem. Presumably having the police visit is what the YouTuber wanted? I’m not really sure of the lesson here but drama’s presumably the point as opposed to a side effect so it’s hard to take seriously.
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  john_strinlai
  risky move to talk to cops at your door without a lawyer present, although i am not sure how different it is in canada
• assimpleaspossi
  >The St. Charles County Police Department arrested six juveniles after a car stolen out of Kirkwood was located in Weldon Spring.>The St. Charles County Police Department said the incident began when a car was stolen in Kirkwood at around 7:30 a.m. Cpl. Barry Bayles with St. Charles County police, said a license plate reader in the county identified the car at around 9:50, and a second reader spotted it at around 9:30.https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/crime/6-minors-arrested-ca...
• sys_64738
  If the police have nothing to hide then they've nothing to fear from this.
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  thenthenthen
  In Europe there is this radio beacon tracking device listening for emergency services radio signals (Tetra/C2000), called Target Blue[1]. This is not illegal, except apparently for in Belgium.[1] https://blu-eye.eu/en
• thomasjeff1
  A decentralized p2p impossible to delete/sanction software to track cops would be good.
• RajT88
  People with power will find it easy and tempting to use that power to defend their interests.This is why you have to codify in law accountability and oversight.
• volcomy
  "It would be scary if someone could track where you live and when you leave for work." Yes. That's the point...
• godwinson__4-8
  Reminder from a lawyer (and a cop in the audience) presenting at a law school: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eETldr: Don't talk to the police. Another reminder - familiarize yourself with your 4th, 5th and 6th amendment rights and remember to invoke them audibly (for an example of the risk of failing to do so - see Salinas v. Texas [1]) and then shut your mouth. When possible, record every interaction. Cops will lie. Do not argue or be belligerent. Invoke your rights, record, comply with any legal orders, and never physically resist. But do not agree to talk or consent to doing so. A cop on the street is neither judge nor jury. Do not surrender your rights under the pretense of a "voluntary" or "consensual" visit.Nothing can be more patriotic in a country that fought off a King and passed the Bill of Rights than telling an armed agent of the state without a warrant who "just wants to talk" to get off your property.[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salinas_v._Texas
• Aboutplants
  Sounds like there should be some laws in place that governs both the police and civilian surveillance. But alas
• IncreasePosts
  I'm not familiar with privacy and filming laws in canada, but if the cops just came there and chatted with him without any arrests, warnings, citations, detainment, etc, then it isn't really different from any other random citizen knocking on your door and asking about your security camera.
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  LadyCailin
  Tracking for thee but not for me
• walrus01
  Reminder for all Canadians that the entire country is a single party consent jurisdiction for recording audio conversations. If you're one of the parties to the conversation, you're not required to inform the other. CBC has used this extensively for hidden camera/hidden microphone investigations (CBC Marketplace among other shows). There's ample prior case law on it.
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  prymitive
  Is it that different from members of the public asking cops what intentions they have using Flock? Seems like everyone is concerned about privacy, the only difference is that the police is more organised and has more leverage to protect themselves vs (often) fragmented public.
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  stego-tech
  Alright HN, here’s your challenge: build an open source Flock but for cops and politicians.Build plugins for common doorbell or surveillance systems consumers use - Ring, Ubiquiti, Frigate, whatever - and have it look for official vehicles (cops, diplomat plates, government plates, etc). When detected, publish the data to an open database searchable by the general public that includes location, time, date, direction of travel, make, model, and occupants of vehicle.After all, if this data is really not protected by privacy laws as the cops/Flock/Axon/etc claim, then obviously it’s in our best interest to keep such a database ourselves to track those who track us. We may not have the right of way or easements or budgets to build out a network like these corporate spooks, but an open community database could cover a wide swath pretty quickly.Surely someone out there has the time and expertise willing to take the heat for such a project.
• haunter
  That was in Canada (Peel, Ontario) not in the US just for context and for people not reading the article
• exe34
  Rookie mistake. Need to start a religion first, then you can do whatever you want if you call it righteous.
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  EA-3167
  This is one of those emotionally satisfying stories... if you don't think about it very hard. It's symbolically rich, it fits the simplistic narratives of good vs evil we're all raised with, but this isn't a great example of a 'gotcha' moment.Do I like Flock cameras? No. Do I like mass surveillance? No. Do I see a difference between an agent of the state doing something involving law enforcement or surveillance activities, and a private individual doing the same? Yes. You can't run around in uniform handcuffing people either.I don't want HN'ers setting up surveillance networks anymore than I want them strapping a pistol to their hip and fighting crime. It's an asymmetry by design because the alternative is an unworkable nightmare, whereas the sad reality is that if people keep voting for people who openly spy on us, they're going to keep doing it.
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  shevy-java
  So they can watch us - but we can not watch them.At which point is this called slavery?
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  adamtaylor_13
  YouTuber is shocked to find out that the government is legally able to do things that you, a private citizen, cannot do.
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  legitster
  So the cops visited and talked to him, but didn't pursue any charges or issue any warnings. He was free to pursue his project (so far).>“One of [the officers] took the time to specifically mention how scary it would be for them, because people would be able to find out where they lived, when they got on their shift and what they were doing throughout the day, and that that type of powerful information could put them personally at risk [from] any bad apples that might want to track them down.”I know we're supposed to distill everything down to a "them vs us" mentality. But cops have been tracked down and killed by people using apps like Waze so it's not a completely unwarranted fear.This also isn't an apples and oranges situation. A Flock database isn't public - police have access but at least ostensibly have oversight from the legal system. That's a much different set of concerns than the "UNO reverse card" the TikToker is trying to make it to be.