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Comments (174)

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  hamsterbase
  There are already 100 million HarmonyOS devices in China, so you could say it's now a three-way rivalry. The apps I use every day basically all have native HarmonyOS versions, including even foreign apps like Tesla and Sam's Club.I've actually been using HarmonyOS for half a year now, and it feels pretty good — the notifications and system smoothness are on par with iOS. The reason I don't use an iPhone is that I need NFC access control, which iOS doesn't support.Huawei has invested a large amount of manpower to station people in major companies to help develop HarmonyOS. I think they have already broken the vicious cycle of "no users -> no apps -> even fewer users."Moreover, in the current AI era, it has become easier for Chinese developers to port software to HarmonyOS. For example, Moonlight, the streaming software I often use, has several natively customized and optimized versions available in the HarmonyOS app store.
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  microtonal
  No, they won't become a viable alternative:- Worse compatibility with the millions of Android apps already out there.- Hardware vendors (outside Apple) all target Android.- The usability of Android/iOS is far better than non-Android Linux phones.- The security of non-Android Linux phones is in a bad state (e.g. lacking proper app sandboxing). Heck, even the Android emulation layers that some of these phones have, throw the strong Android sandbox model out of the window.The answer is very obvious and it is AOSP. Even though Google is trying to close AOSP more (e.g. by not pushing source continuously to the AOSP Git repos and keeping QPR1/3 for themselves), it is still an open source system. Play Services can either be run sandboxed or emulated with microG. AOSP allows alternative systems to hit the ground running, you get great app compatibility, a tested security model, great usability, and support from hardware vendors, including vendors that are alternative friendly (used to be Pixel, now Motorola, Fairphone, etc.). If ever needed, AOSP could be forked and it would still be leagues ahead of non-Android Linux phones.All the downsides that apply to AOSP-based systems (like things getting blocked by Play Integrity, unlockable bootloaders) also apply to non-Android Linux systems.
• janvlug
  I have been using the Librem 5 as my daily phone since 1 May 2022 (https://janvlug.org/blog/one-week-librem-5-field-trial-day-1...). And the Librem 5 is getting better and better, and its PureOS Linux operating system is actively maintained, and patches are still upstreamed (https://puri.sm/posts/tag/pureos/).I really enjoy having a phone that gives me full root control, and that is very similar to the Fedora (GNOME) distribution that I have on my desktop and laptop.Buying a Linux phone from a pure Linux hardware vendor like Purism helps sustaining the mobile Linux ecosystem.Yes, the Librem 5 is a bit older phone with some rough edges, but for me it is a really good phone. It gives freedom in the free software sense, and consistency with my Linux computers. I gladly accept some minor inconvenience to have a phone that respects my freedom and privacy.I cannot foresee the future, but for me the experience on a Linux phone that I control is far more superior than any phone that spies on me and takes away my freedom, like Android or iOS, basically any phone from any manufacturer that disrespects me.
• penguin_booze
  Before the talks of alternative platforms, there should be legislation in place for services to expose http endpoints for all services rendered. I.e., a legitimate user should be able to point their web browser at it--behind whatever authentication and bot-detection shenanigans they want--and avail the services. No apps, no crap, no bloat.In other words, the 'app culture', and the attendant normalisation of data stealing, must end. This effectively takes "app-" and platform-dependency out of the picture. Services are no more burdened with supporting n number of platforms; nor do they have an incentive to push people to start using their apps. Services can still offer an app, and users still have a choice to use one. But, the baseline client should be a browser. And there shouldn't be any discrimination between mobile vs. desktop browsers, either.
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  apatheticonion
  Unless regulators enforce (at the very least) that hardware documentation sufficient to produce open source firmware/drivers must be supplied with that hardware, no - probably not.Drivers and firmware are the biggest hurdle outside of locked bootloaders for competition in the operating system space.Examples; Anything Apple (MacBook, iPhone), anything Samsung, anything Google, the list goes on.There _is_ open hardware, but it has poor performance / battery / build quality and the vast majority of users will not accept that.IMO "the right to repair software" is essential and this duopoly is a function of explicit monopolistic practices.Maybe LLMs can help open the "reverse engineering" Pandora's box - but we have yet to see that realised - at least for drivers / firmware
• thrw928277bnb
  Sailfish OS is, IMO, good enough for daily use. I do use their (Android) App Support for a few apps out of convenience because, for example, I just like Symfonium music and audiobook player. However, if I would approach it more strictly, I could comfortably live without Android on the device at all. Do take that with a grain of salt, though - I don't use mobile banking apps and NFC payment, for example.edit: The hardware supply chain is an issue, though. It's all Android hardware under the hood because that's the only thing you can buy. So there are crutches necessary to translate between Android drivers with their hardware abstraction layer and "proper" Linux. Libhybris does that in case of Sailfish OS / Jolla (the company behind the OS) and it works well but I wouldn't call it elegant, necessarily.
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  palata
  Let's make a thought experiment: let's think about designing a new Linux distro from scratch. Obviously starting with Linux-the-kernel, and then thinking about what we need to be a modern smartphone OS.- We'll probably want the security model, with the nice sandboxing and I would argue the verified boot.- We'll want the battery optimisation.- We'll want access to the firmwares of the components running in the phone.- ...From the very first step "start from Linux-the-kernel", every single question I ask myself goes towards the Android design and away from the classical Linux distro design.In other words, the open source Linux distribution that is the closest to a modern mobile system is... Android :-).
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  tiku
  I just want a virtual phone on my Android device. Why is this so hard?So a new phone means just moving the VM. The only unique thing my Android layer has to do is route the internet..
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  Someone
  I think there will never be mass-market “Linux phones” in the sense of “runs a Linux kernel and you can tinker with all their parts”.Demand simply is too low. FTA: (https://amosbbatto.wordpress.com/2026/10/05/linux-phones-alt...):“Jolla has sold 15,000 units of its phone as of August 2026 just by taking pre-orders for production batches from its web site”In comparison, Apple easily sells 15,000 phones each hour of the year.So, the best hope for such a Linux phone would be to have something installable on hardware of a third party that normally ships Android. I don’t see that happen because such hardware gets locked down more and more to defend against cybercrime.
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  serbuvlad
  iOS and Android have an incredible amount of engineering to make them RAM and battery efficient that desktop Linux simply doesn't have.And its not a case of simply implementing some feature, since all apps have to written with this stuff in mind: apps can be suspended/killed at any time and should be able to restart gracefully, notifications go through a side channel, etc etcDo these phones have any of this?
• nikodunk
  What a fantastic article. As someone who has contributed to Phosh and Nura (prev. postmarketOS), I was always sad that Linux phones didn't take off. This article describes very well how difficult the firmware/hardware side is, which as a software guy I hadn't quite understood.The software side (Phosh, KDE, etc) is now improving fast (both IMO because the obscure frameworks they're written in are easier to contribute to with AI, but also just thanks to time and maturity).And if the firmware/hardware side can graduate the treadmill of endless bring-up and instead work on performance and fun stuff, that would be fantastic. We need our Raspberry Pi moment. First the Librem and Pinephone were our hope, then the OnePlus 6, but they all stayed 80% usable. Currently it was the Fairphone, but now tbd which the savior device will be. Exciting!
• m4rtink
  Yes. And I would argue that in the form of the Sailfish OS devices.from Jolla, they already are a viable alternative.
• evrenesat
  If i will not able to get in control of the device, at least as much as macos level, and still able to make contactless payments, approve online payements, breaking the duopoly will not matter much for me.Maybe i should aim for a second smallest possible android phone just for banking to set my mobile computing free. (İ was already tried using unihertz jelly star as my daily driver for a while)
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  Gareth321
  I have a hot take on this: I don't think iOS and Android have long for this world. In five years, phones will just be an AI device. Local compute when possible, cloud compute when required. The OS will be whatever the AI dynamically creates for the user's tastes and requirements. People won't buy apps anymore. They'll create them on the fly as needed. In rare cases where an app purchase happens (such as a YouTube subscription), the AI will facilitate the purchase with Google's AI.
• pjmlp
  I have been reading this since OpenMoko.No they want, unless they cater to normies, instead of trying to be X Windows and UNIX CLI on a tiny phone.And for better or worse, actually make deals with OEMs, instead of trying to reverse engineer them, phones aren't like IBM PC compatibles.
• ToddBonzalez
  No, Linux phones won't become a viable alternative to Android or iOS phones.The average phone user couldn't give a damn about the underlying OS - they buy on price and features - not the "hackability", or whatever drives the good readers of Hacker news to buy phones.
• validatori
  I've already tried linux mobile oses on a few devices but they all have issues with calls and sms working. I have no idea why devs don't focus on the basics of a phone working as a phone and instead j*k off over the ui (which is still slow and buggy) or other apps. Because why would I need a fitness app, a step counter, some fancy notification animations etc if the phone doesn't work AS a phone?
• rramon
  Inevitable given that a lot of dev entrepreneurs are moving from high level CRUD to low level software, CAD and hardware now with AI. But it might move beyond Linux once AIs come up with their own programming languages.
• everyone
  Imo they already are.. They're actual non-hobbled computers you can do what you want with. Think of all the things you can do on Linux.. Now you can do that on your pocket sized computer.Sure all the conventional mobile ecosystem stuff wont work. But that's entirely a giant ball of cancer anyway. Only a fool would want to deal with that filth.
• anon
  undefined
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  abby3010
  Linux phones sounds like so much to miss if not having one! I wonder why its not already out?
• VimEscapeArtist
  Android is Linux
• mdotmertens
  Sure, in the year of the linux desktop.
• ambione
  I wish. sadly, no. even the year of the linux desktop may very well never come to pass. I've always felt there's always been a fundamental disconnect between what linux users/devs THINK general audiences want, and what they ACTUALLY want. I applaud them for all their hard effort, they've really come a long way, and they never even got a dime for it (W foss, L microslop), but man the ux has always been a nightmare lol. I absolutely love my laptop running mint, its running better than it ever did with windows, but I could never recommend something even this 'simple' to someone who isn't a hobbyist, or has a lot of spare time to configure and maintain it, or cares about their privacy, etc. I understand also there's many other factors at play here that are completely out of the hands of the dev/community, like the fact its almost never natively supported by just about every app, and I dont mean to put that on them either. they're just more factors holding it back from mainstream adoption.so if that's been the case on desktop, smartphones are just so far out of the picture. i dont see how the year of the linux smartphone could ever come before the year of the linux desktop.I really hope I'm wrong. thanks for reading my meh-ly informed 2¢.
• red369
  I've just written another post somewhere in this thread about discovering a nice feature in KDE Plasma, and remembered my recent search for a way to output HDMI from my old iPhone without ridiculous compression, and all this Linux phone talk stated to make me have crazy thoughts about how much I want Plasma Mobile. I was all set to write "just give me Plasma Mobile on something the size of an iPhone 13 Mini, and I don't care how much doesn't work". I used a 1st Gen iPhone SE, years past where it was sensible. I can suffer.I started to list my few, basic must-haves - aware that everyone has a different list - but my own short list got embarrassingly long, very quickly. I thought I had simple requirements!Obvious basics which surely aren't too much to ask: email, calendar, reminder and note syncing, password manager with TOTP generator, instant messaging (willingly to compromise and have only Signal or WhatsApp), route navigation, basic browsing, half-decent camera, ...Phone calls - so I probably need 4G and 5G...Oh - plus uncountable other small apps or utilities that hardly seem worth mentioning: calculator, file browser, compass, voice memos, ...And then I thought about the ever-growing list of big, ugly Apps that I could live without, but really do make my life easier. Banking apps (sigh - I hate how many of these virtually require an app), the app to unlock my apartment block door, Outlook, Teams, ...And then I started having sensible, disappointing thoughts. Maybe I'd rather just keep the iPhone 13 Mini. I just got a new battery (and bonus screen) installed by Apple on the weekend...But seriously, when that starts to be unusable... if I have to carry something obnoxiously large, it better run mainstream Linux and turn into a desktop when I plug a USB-C dock into it!
• Muhammad523
  I can't wait for any IS different from android/iOS to do so
• nextstep
  No
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  Animats
  What are smartphones in China running? Presumably not something Google controls.
• cicko
  The way things are going, these will become the only viable option for an independent device.
• metalman
  there is Jolla.https://jolla.com/
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  mrheosuper
  Linux need a "Wine for Android" moment to be viable.
• wasabinator
  2050 the future of Linux in the pocket!
• asdff
  Kinda had them with jailbroken iphones.
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  Markoff
  if European governments/banks keep relying on safety verification supplied by American Google and Apple then no, they don't stand a chanceyou can stop using US Visa/MC cards, but it's kinda pointless if you EU bank app still requires verification from US Google/Apple for app to runI wish European govs would stop requiring Google Play services in Android phone and provided their own solution
• charcircuit
  Google already put in the resources to make a Linux phone viable and they released a lot of that work via AOSP.Android is Linux.
• nicman23
  yes but with the catch of waydroid working
• pinewurst
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headline...
• anon
  undefined
• aa-jv
  I still have a drawer full of OpenMoko. A couple Creative Labs Zii Eggs. Some OpenPandora, and even a hacked up FairPhone, donated to my parts bin, non-working.I sure wish the Zii Egg had made it out of prototype stages. It showed the most promise - a bare-metal Linux OS, multiple cores, very, very easy to write apps for it - just plain C/C++ really.Linux phones never happened because the distro's constructed for them were overly complicated, unnecessarily encumbered with 'smart features', and just generally (imho), sabotaged by the cult of collective development. Its the sort of project that requires a BDFL pushing things forward - none of the failed Linux phones ever had that.These days, I'd rather see someone produce an ESP32 phone with LoRA and maybe SDR, and leave it at that.But, there is another issue. The modems. It is always the modems. Until someone courageously open sources the modem chip and its firmware, there is no hope.
• shevy-java
  I am not sure but the less power Google has, the better. I am getting tired of those Trump milking machinery leeching off of others - we already see how Trump treats Ukrainians. The ultimate agent Krasnov, just as Yuri predicted in the 1980s already: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5It1zarINv0
• Beretta_Vexee
  [dead]
• Awin-x
  [flagged]