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  the_duke
  Brutal!> ParticleDB 1.1.4 claimed to be a Postgres-compatible database ... Instead, we found a library of confusion> exhibited frequent, profound transactional anomalies in essentially every way we could measure. We routinely observed the loss of committed writes, internal consistency violations, G1a (Aborted Read), G1b (Intermediate Read), and P4 (Lost Update). In the append workload, successfully appended values would routinely disappear from later reads of a given key. Our test suite inferred every kind of cyclic anomaly including G0, G1c, G-Single, and G2-item, but many of these can be attributed to more basic issues, like write loss. These issues occurred with a single server and without faults, and affected every transaction mode, interface, and WAL mode tested
• tensegrist
  > ParticleDB’s home page advertised that ParticleDB was “formally proven” with a TLA+ proof. However, during our collaboration no TLA+ specification was available. It is unclear what properties might be proven, or whether they described ParticleDB as built.
• wofo
  > Given the severity and extent of the safety errors we found, and the process which produced them, Jepsen recommends users halt further deployment of ParticleDB and migrate to other databases as soon as possible. Consider checking and/or rebuilding database state from more reliable sources, if available.I guess that's what happens when you vibecode a database...
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  edude03
  > We present 96 issues in ParticleDB, ranging from the pedestrian (crashes, deadlocks, data loss, etc.) to the piquant (partially-invisible rows which could not be deleted, WHERE 4 = 5, dropped tables re-emerging in distorted forms, confused columns, strings turning into integers, and so on).Definitely seems worse than usual (looking back most databases seem to have <10 issues total, and the majority seem "mild") - since it's a database for AI was it also likely vibe-coded or just new? Then again even if new, I wouldn't expect so many issues in a stable release
• cyberpunk
  It’s really great to see more of these @Aphyr, I really enjoy them and learn something from each. Thank you!
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  mxey
  It’s wild how bad it is. Not surprising for a vibecoded database, but why did they hire Kyle for a test, instead of first doing ANY testing themselves?
• amluto
  I’ve come to learn an interesting dichotomy in software:Some software is correct by construction, in the sense that the overall design makes sense and the cases that don’t work are generally local bugs.Some software is incorrect by construction, and it tends to work by some combination of luck and by carefully working around the incorrect design in most or all code paths that could expose the incorrectness. (AI can be quite effective at finding the relevant places to insert workarounds.)ParticleDB sounds like the latter category. Plenty of large projects have portions that are in one category and portions that are in another.As an aside, for the last day or two, I’ve been contemplating that the Linux kernel’s handling of folio pinning seems to be in the incorrect-by-construction category. Good times. No, I haven’t found a hard-to-fix bug that I would credibly characterize as a security or likely accidental corruption issue [0], but this seems mostly like luck.[0] I do appear to have re-discovered a bug that some massive Anthropic dump from a couple months ago also found, and it’s getting fixed. If your application does “fixed” io_uring I/O or certain types of iommu-based or maybe RDMA on a memfd, you might plausibly encounter it on rare occasions. I didn’t bother making a reproducer.
• NoDodgeQuestion
  tigerbeetle much different resulthttps://jepsen.io/analyses/tigerbeetle-0.16.11https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44199592
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  thebeardisred
  Congrats to the particledb team for getting this far and thanks to @aphyr for the analysis.It takes gumption to build a new storage engine. I remember when etcd[0] first made it's way into @aphyr's cross-hairs. We took all of the input very seriously because we knew that a data store which is untrustworthy is useless.Resolving these issues likely won't be easy, but if you can get to the point where you walk away from Jepsen unscathed the trust in your software will be greatly amplified.0: https://aphyr.com/posts/316-call-me-maybe-etcd-and-consul
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  antirez
  Imagine asking for a review before checking with the brutally powerful agents we have today all the low hanging fruits. And, at the point we are, you can likely go at incredible levels of automated bugs seeking and do the whole test in house.
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  Powdering7082
  > ParticleDB’s home page advertised that ParticleDB was “formally proven” with a TLA+ proof.Perhaps they meant formerly, probably just a speech to text problem
• t3ntxcles
  Shipping a bug like "WHERE 4 = 5" returning rows says it all to me
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  semiquaver
  https://github.com/particledbai/jepsen/issues/18 is utterly humiliating. I can’t believe they kept going after getting that report. I would die of shame.(Edit for clarity: this is quoted from the linked article) You could write predicates over non-existent columns: root=> SELECT * FROM t WHERE definitely_not_a_column = 4; a | b ---+---- 4 | 5 (1 row) Or ask if 4 = 5 root=> SELECT * FROM t WHERE 4 = 5; a | b ---+---- 5 | 6 (1 row) Good on them for being good sports I guess, but after reading this I would never touch a piece of software built by anyone involved with this company. The sheer hubris of their claims combined with the specific reality of their broken garbage software (with the contradicted marketing claims and hallucinated documentation) is literally breathtaking.It must have been darkly amusing to see all these defect tickets coming in, only for them to frantically shovel each one to increasingly overworked LLM agents to apply pig-lipstick while the humans in charge oh-so-slowly start to realize their software quality is not quite what their glazing agents had been telling them and that what they have on their hands is basically sub-mongo-quality slop. What a world we live in, huh?
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  CodesInChaos
  Since the library claims to be postgres compatible, I wonder if its developers ran the existing postgres jepsen suite against it (possibly with some adjustments). Or why not.Especially now, where you could probably just ask AI to adapt the existing suites to the cosnistency claims this database makes, and get something useful out of it. While certainly not as good as a professional test, I'd expect it to at least find some low hanging fruits before going for the expensive and public official Jepsen test.
• pluto_modadic
  Aphyr does great work, Jepsen always kicks it out of the park :)
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  throwaway737488
  I am wondering how this was allowed to be tested from a corporate strategy point of view of the company Orkes.This is such a huge reputational hit, seems like a terrible outcome for a Series B company funded by big name VCsWhat does this say about their main product?
• yipinwong
  Great to implement a DB just like human memory, unstable, and untrustworthy.
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  jwr
  Every database vendor should pay to get their software Jepsen-tested.
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  _bohm
  Is/was ParticleDB open source? There is a Github link on their website, however the only public repo in their org seems to be the Golang client library.
• Thaxll
  Slop DB written in Rust. They probably changed the landing page after the bad results, you can still see the old one: https://web.archive.org/web/20260518203012/https://particled..."Written in Rust · Formally Verified · PostgreSQL Compatible"
• stacktraceyo
  Fatality
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  Powdering7082
  -https://github.com/jepsen-io/particledb is currently 404 (probably still private?)-EDIT: It's up now
• quietbarn
  I wonder what the internal testing pipeline looked like before this. A codebase with that many fundamental issues suggests either no integration tests were written or they were all mocked out to pass green. It seems strange that a team would market a system as formally proven without actually running the workload through even basic consistency checks themselves first.
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  stevenburg
  That part is the weird bit to me. If the existing harness breaks right away, that's the signal to stop and fix things, not to book an outside audit. Running the suite in CI on every build would have caught a lot of this.
• pullrun
  [dead]