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Comments (212)

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  glimshe
  The incredible thing is that Windows 10 was already near perfect. It would make sense to increase performance and security, but they changed the UI without improving an iota of user productivity, including removing key features of the product. Almost ever change in the past few years made Windows worse. Windows leadership should be fired and replaced by people who are actually Windows users, not MacOS users.
• rmuratov
  I feel like, in the spirit of gaming’s return to its roots (WoW Classic, League of Legends Classic), Microsoft should give Windows a soft relaunch, call it something like Windows Classic, and bring together the best of Windows XP, 7, and 10, with a consistent UI, familiar interaction patterns built up over decades, and so on.
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  tommica
  Windows 11 is really the worst iteration, my partner did not want the telemetry and other windows 11 crap, so she, from her own free will, researched linuxes and chose Fedora Kinoite as her operating system, because she liked the idea that she could not accidentally break it.After a year or so, she is a happy camper, steam works, web works, all is good. Though once we start with the art software, that might be a bit tricky.Only issue that it had was when after an os update the extra hdd mount points lost their execute flags for some reason, so unfortunately not a 100% technical free experience.
• roody15
  They need to fix a lot more than just this. Fundamentally, I am not sure they can make meaningful changes.Users do not want forced cloud integration and forced “features” added that are clearly designed to maximize connection to Microsoft cloud services.They may be able to allow more customizations of the UI and back off to some degree but as far as their business model I don’t think they can provide an OS like many users want.
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  contubernio
  About 25 years ago (maybe a bit more) I remember a friend, a top tier developer at Microsoft (this was in the period where the underbelly of windows 7 was being designed) explaining to me that Microsoft knew its users better than they knew themselves and that the key was to train them properly. While there's some sense to such an attitude when introducing tweaks to technology, some variant of the attitude underlies most of Microsoft's missteps since then.
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  mrheosuper
  As long as they still require online account to install, nope, not for me. That's stupid requirement.
• statenjason
  Installed Windows 11 on a VM over the weekend for running a specific program. The lengthy multi-reboot updates are just like I remember from Vista. Except now they show advertisements. Grateful 2008 was Year of the Linux Desktop for me.
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  rf15
  Sometimes I do wonder why it's hard to see that you shouldn't invest in AI, let Sam Altman hoover up all compute hardware and then make a surprise pikachu when hardware sales of your user base decline. Same for Google: "what, if I stop people from going to websites because I let a bot summarise what they're looking for, I get less money from website visits?"At this rate (I know I keep beating that drum), I think we cannot have AI: it is too self-defeating from a business pov.
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  nukanse
  My sister gave me his win 11 laptop to fix. 1 Tb SSD was full. Half of it was windows.old folder after 26h2 update. Windows has 5 different ways to delete that folder and none works. They are all badly documented. It spends 1 hour reading the file list before starting to delete... On a 4 tb/second nvme drive. Then spend a day "deleting" the folder, but doesn't deletes anything.Finally, booted an Linux rescue distro from USB and deleted the folder.Then had to clean the winsxs folder, which was full of useless files after an update.In the end I cleaned 700 gb wasted.
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  jswelker
  Way too little way too late Microsoft. After 30 years I will never choose Windows again. Got on Windows with 3.1 and off the train with 11. It's not me--it's you.
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  bajard
  Linux: Install and use. Windows: Fight 3 days with the installer. Spend 4 weeks tweaking it... And do it all again after any random update.
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  opengrass
  Maybe they haven't realized how convoluted their licensing system is, and as Gabe Newell says, piracy is a service issue.
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  dhx
  Trying to understand the original Windows 11 context menu diagram as someone who hasn't used Windows 11 is surprisingly difficult. By contrast, Gnome 51's context menu (or earlier versions as far back as I remember) for a file/folder are unambiguous and easy to understand.At the top of the Windows 11 context menu are some small icons without text for high usage actions which I assume are:1. select-for-moving (cut), perhaps Gnome's "Move to..."2. duplicate-in-place-with-number-appended-to-duplicate-filename or select-for-copying (copy), perhaps Gnome's "Copy to..."3. something to do with the clipboard--maybe copy contents to clipboard4. something to do with text entry--maybe rename the file/folder, perhaps Gnome's "Rename..."5. share via social media applications or cloud file sharing applications, or move the file/folder locally perhaps Gnome's "Move to..."6. move to recycle bin (delete)Menu options with text are unambiguous for "Open", "Open with", "Compress to ZIP file", "Properties", although Gnome will state "Open with {name_of_default_app}" to make it clear exactly how a file will be opened without having to guess.I guess "Copy as path" might just copy the full filesystem path to the clipboard. I can't remember the last time I wanted to do that.I guess "Always keep on this device" prevents the file/folder being backed up to some cloud storage provider. I'd rather open up an application dedicated to cloud storage backups and be able to review current backup options there all in one place for all types of data/files.The "Free up space" option I'm less clear on--will a local application pop up and suggest what I can delete within the folder, will a cloud storage provider application pop up and suggest the file not be synchronised with the local device and only be kept in cloud storage, etc.The bottom option "Show more options" is not expandable so I assume there are so many other options an entire new window is needed to display them all. Maybe it'll give me useful but rarely used options from a list of hundreds available, such as "count how many words are in this file" for text files...?
• smukherjee19
  Glad to see all the bad karma Microsoft accumulated for their several anti-consumer and user-unfriendly practices coming back to bite them where it hurts the most: declining revenue.
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  esalman
  They also finally allowed moving the taskbar to any edge of the screen.
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  DaiPlusPlus
  Meh. It's been 3 years and *gestures broadly* so much else of the Windows 11 UX still leaves much to be desired: making the context-menu slightly-less-awful isn't going to bring me back to the fold when so many other aspects of Win11 are not just unappealing, but actually off-putting.(I maintain that Windows 11's bad UX is a consequence of MS having to make a single UI for everyone, which means it'll be too dumbed-down, simplified, or inflexible for power-users (XP, Win8, Win11); or too complicated and intimidating for everyone else (Win7, Win10), or just bad for everyone (Vista)).If Microsoft wants me to willingly buy into Windows 12, then I want the option to keep the Windows 10 UI (File Explorer, Taskbar, Start Menu, and Window Management) - I know it can be done in theory[1], I just want proper support.[1] https://lesferch.github.io/OldExplorer/
• eviks
  > Users will get a “customize menu” button that controls what commands appear when they right-click their mouseGood, though doesn't seem to be include the ability to control icons, name and accelerator keys, so still a long way to reach the user ergonomic heaven...
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  orliesaurus
  I wonder if MacOS is also going down the drain - obviously not as fast as Windows - but I believe it doesn't feel as smooth - it feels always more bloated with every updates and I find myself having to install more and more custom little tools for everything:- Cleaning my drive from unwanted files → One app- Organizing files based on type → another app- A good voice-to-text → another app- A better launcher → another app- An incredible terminal → another appI mean is this the way it's supposed to be? Wasn't the whole point - unwrap the macbook, load up Mac OS and LFG?
• anon
  undefined
• tarokun33
  I believe no one on the earth loves and trusts MSFT.
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  waltbosz
  You can shift+right-click to get the old right click context menu.
• phyzix5761
  Remember when Windows 10 was supposed to be the last Windows version?
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  dataminded
  I built a new PC because they made me abandon 10 for 11. 11 sucked enough to drive me Linux.
• lbriner
  I use Linux, MacOS and Windows and I am generally happier with Linux and Windows for navigating around but if there are annoyances that still haven't been fixed after 20 years on Windows, they are:1) Paying for a licence and still being treated like a marketing target2) Windows update is ridiculously slow end-to-end and takes a whole morning once per month to update our platform machines (even though we are 80% Linux)3) Search is really, really, really bad. I mean honestly, search for a program and it might take 10 seconds to load a result if it loads anything at all. Partial matches? Nope. This has never worked on any of my windows 7-11 machines and has never been fixed.4) The whole "reinstall Windows" attitude at Microsoft Support if they cannot work out why something isn't working5) The half-arsed attempts to harmoize the UI which just leads to weirdisms like network in 3 different places, remote desktop still in a windows 32 bit dialog, and the fact that things got renamed and moved with every major release for what can only be assumed to be a shit reason breaking muscle memory for 1000s of people.6) Not having the Virt IO drivers included in the base windows installer.I think that is enough for now!
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  dfedbeef
  I assumed people would find shift+right click. It brings up the old right click menu
• Surac
  Too late too little microslop
• timcobb
  It's a drag that products like Windows are stuck forever the way they are. Or, rather, that they're stuck the way they are but then command such market share that nothing new ever comes and sees the light of day. Windows is doomed to keep generating billions for Microsoft until one day it doesn't, which I guess is what they're going for.It also seems silly to tie the decline of Windows to UI discontent. Windows is in decline because it's increasingly irrelevant in the post-PC, post-USA world, and sucks in general.
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  conception
  Can they fix that it runs like trash on 16gb of ram? That’d be cool.
• CivBase
  I'd rather a setting to go back to the old right-click menu by default. It's possible to do with a registry edit, but not from a user-friendly setting.
• mihaaly
  One done, four thousand three hundred twenty-one to go. Plus minus couple of hundreds.I have a dozen or so myself, probably two dozens, that I meet daily. Yes, daily. Using Windows feels like trying to run in muddy water with Lego bricks in the bottom here and there. It wasn't like this much earlier. Not even when the blue screen of death was commonplace.
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  newsclues
  Windows 11 is a major regression.10 was better, but I’d pay for a modern version of windows 2kpro UI. Bring back msn messsenger.It’s basically a gaming box, everything else is on a Mac or Linux machine, all on my desk.
• anthk
  Unless Windows 11 runs fine under 2GB of RAM (even 1 with some profiles) and with 4GB with normal browsing, they are doomed.
• vachina
  Just rerelease Windows 10 IoT LTSC as standard Windows, there fixed it.
• phendrenad2
  Windows 11 was just a hastily-developed salesperson-tier excuse to require TPM 2.0 wasn't it?
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  josteink
  I don’t know what could drive PC sales in this age.Old machines from the last 10 years are still capable of all normal daily tasks, even development tasks. This has the 95% covered through existing or cheap second hand machines.The only new use-case is local AI, which for most people is simply out of price range right now with the current GPU and RAM prices. There’s some people who’ll want this, but they are a minority. Not enough to drive sales at scale.So whatever remains as a segment is business - which in these cost-aware times are mostly doing like the other 95% and only buy new machines if needed to cover new hires.
• tokamak
  too little too late
• speed_spread
  I assume we still won't be able to make the task bar vertical.
• vivzkestrel
  - slghtly offtopic but also covers how to run windows 11 super duper optimally- here is my production grade setup for agentic ai on windows 11- setup windows 11 with Rufus boot to disable online MS account creation https://rufus.ie/en/- [download window 11 x64 iso from here ](https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows11)- then download vmware workstation pro (you ll need to create a free account to get the download link on their website)- install vmware workstation pro- turn internet off- plug your pendrive in with the rufus w11 x64 iso on it (mind ya, this pen drive ll first need full formatting before burning a w11 image to it)- press f2 to reach bios in vmware settings and make it boot from pendrive- turn internet off on your machine (DO NOT keep it on)- install w11 (keep a 100gb for vmware)- without updates it ll load real fast and you wont need an MS account (rufus takes care of it)- while it installs, download revo uninstaller pro on a separate machine https://onefiles.net/9d170d01078634b5 (latest version 5.4.x) and put it inside a second pendrive / portable hdd- once w11 loads, it ll ask you to enter a password, keep existing password blank and enter literally anything for a new password- voila you are done with w11 setup inside vmware- now connect the 2nd pendrive with revo and install it (need to clean uninstall many tools, hence we need this one)- now go to search bar and type check for updates and update everything on w11 inside vmware- next stop get unigetui from ms app store or from here https://devolutions.net/unigetui/ (it is a package manager responsible for installing just about everything else with auto updation of all packages)- the open unigetui and search for the following packages vlc, winrar, winhance- winhance is the fully customizable debloater you ll need to turn off all telemetry (we ll debloat after installing all the other requirements)- next go to ms app store and install python or open powershell and type python- the open unigetui and search for the following packages vlc, winrar, winhance- winhance is the fully customizable debloater you ll need to turn off all telemetry (we ll debloat after installing all the other requirements)- next go to ms app store and install python or open powershell and type python- mind you this installs a python version manager that lets you install and uninstall multiple python versions- after this python version manager is setup, install a specific version of python like``` py install 3.13 ``` - next we need a node.js version manager, use fnm for ithttps://github.com/Schniz/fnm - once installed, it may need to be added to environment variables manually- once again choose a specific version of node.js and install it using``` fnm install 23.12.0 ``` check fnm --help for commands - next we need a java version manager, use jvms for ithttps://github.com/ystyle/jvms- pretty self explanatory- now install git and again it ll give you some trouble over environment variables, command not recognized etc, fixable with some gpt help- at this point, we got git, node version manager, java version manager and python version manager and are ready to rumble- install vscode/ visual studio whatever- install codex- install claude- install opencode (both cli via npx and desktop app) and check their plans out https://opencode.ai/console/go- install ghidra , ghidra-mcp (mind you open ghidra-mcp first because it only works with specific versions of ghidra and java) this is the reason we installed a java version manager- check out setup for rea https://github.com/morluto/rea requires npx setup for rea and ghidra both, read documentation- run winhance, check recommended settings under optimize and every other tab and restart the vm a few times for full debloat with 0 telemetry services- congrats you have a full blown agentic environment at this point (if I missed anything i ll come back and update)
• d--b
  the question this doesnt address is whether the world is buying less PCs or is it the windows share of market that’s declining, or both.The end of windows has been heralded since it exists, but it’s still not going anywhere.
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  jqpabc123
  OpenAI wants all the RAM --- pushing up the price of PCs.
• gxs
  I recently got my hands on a windows machine - I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t actually excited to use windows after a 15 year hiatusWhat a heaping pile of you know what. You need Microsoft accounts to download basic apps from the App StoreYou get nagged and nagged to enter a windows accountHaving grown up with it, it’s an incredibly odd feeling using it. Modern ui…modern ui…modern ui…and then BAM a weird screen directly ported from windows 98 (or 2k, you get the point)An OS that was always incredibly intuitive to me all of a sudden just felt like a disorganized mess. Want to see your Ethernet adapters? Good luck, you’ll open 10 other settings menus/search results before finally getting to the options you need. Advanced sound settings? SameMy headset wasn’t working, after clicking through a bunch of options at some point I loaded a wizard with very specific questions that I’d never seen before and wouldn’t how how to get back to, it randomly workedStill a bunch of bloatware, still can’t be on for more than a day without having to reboot, everything I remembered that was bad with made worse by bad uxThese days they even tried to remove the option of installing windows with an internet connection, aka ms accountJust bad, there are a lot of annoyances to fix
• shevy-java
  "The timing is notable, as the announcement comes alongside Microsoft’s quarterly financial report, which showed a continued decline in the business of selling Windows licenses for new PCs."Several factors come together. For me, Spy-Recall was the dealbreaker. I can not use an operating system that constantly reports to the USA what I am doing. But the increase in RAM prices also means that I fail to see why I should overpay now due to greedy US AI corporations. These corporations all us folks money here. It is like a racket. This is not a "free market" either, since it is so heavily skewed in favour of corporations. The whole idea about capitalism, which the USA once claimed to worship before selling out to the TechBros, has been that free market competition leads to lower prices. Right now we see collusion, a mafia - why the TechBros aren't in jail already beats me. Too much financial kickbacks into the judicial system.
• Ygg2
  Between Microsoft (indirect) contributions to ongoing RAM shortages, and its frankly hostile UI, color me un-fucking-surprised.
• fleroviumna
  [dead]
• rr808
  After using Windows since I was a pre-teen I finally switched to Omarchy. Its incredible having claude (or other agent) to manage all the random linux config. Its not just good enough its better than Windows in every way. (OK I dont game)